The Dilemma of Jefferson: My Dissenting Voice

Dacia, this is a very brave post to make. I don’t know Jefferson well enough at all to comment on any of the more personal remarks you made about his life and choices. However, the very public choice of blogging about his children is one that I always questioned myself.

Sure, it was beautiful and touchy writing but it was also incredibly risky. I think that all of us that write under any veil of anonymity have to ask what the worst case scenario is. I have thought through mine carefully and I’m at a place in my life where I’m comfortable with it. If it happens, it might even jumpstart me in a new direction that I want to go in.

Some risks certainly are too big to take and Jefferson is learning that now. However, when all is said and done the claims being made against him (from the scant details I know) are completely unfair. Even if he made bad decisions given the current state of the world and society, those decisions *should* have been free.

As I’m writing this, I’ve considered that I just posted a plea for him as well. Do I think that my post will make a difference? Not particularly, I think that sadly this online world is fickle and that while our readers might say they love us, it is unlikely that many will give to Jefferson’s legal defense. I am hoping that because he is such a visible blogger and this story is being broadcast so widely that we will see a general conversation evolve about these issues. One that can benefit and educate all of us.

[…] issue (see Rachel Kramer Bussel on that). You may also be interested in the perspective that Audacia Ray offers on this. I posted a long comment on her blog that basically boils down to this: I […]

Dissenting in one’s own community isn’t easy. It’s easy in a situation like this to get caught up in the crowd and ignore your own assessment. Good on you for speaking your mind. I think you make good points as far as bloggers needing to be aware of the realities and risks of what they do.

I don’t really see the broad implications of this case that people are claiming (a failing of mine I’m sure) but it’s nice people are trying to suuport their friend. Anyhow, good post.

This came across very tactfully, and is an important thing to add to the cacophony and blind outcries happening right now. I have nothing more to add.

I think you did as good a job w/ this post.

I think what ppl from the outside looking in don’t get is, it’s NOT a clearcut case of Jefferson being vilified for his sexuality. And it’s not simply that he wrote about his sex life and also happened to have kids (which would be the classic “parent” == “not sexualized” fear response) - it’s that he wrote about his sex life and his kids in a very public way in the same forum… AND arguably took advantage of insecure women AND has a drinking problem.

I think (hope) that there’s got to be a way to fight the very REAL problems of sexual stigmatization and compartmentalization of sexuality without harming oneself in the process… and there’s got to be away to address these issues without letting someone’s bad behavior go excused unde the guise of it. Because no one is talking about that other stuff. Maybe - and I can understand this - they think it’ll make the sex blogging community “look bad” somehow. But the solution is certainly NOT to close ranks and sweep it under the rug for the sake of party unity.

I hate that there’s really no way to say any of this without it sounding like blaming the victim; but the fact is, this situation is so much more complex than how it’s being painted.

The legitimate question remains of, why bring these issues up now, when he’s “down?” Why didn’t anyone speak up before? And yeah, that’s a damn good question. Of course, it’s bc it’s germane to bring them up now; and I can’t fault people for not wanting to invite drama prior to this. But the mere fact that no one has wanted to touch it at all is telling.

Thank you for being a voice of reason in this! I said a similar thing (though not so tactfully and with my own emotions mixed in), but it makes me feel so much better that I’m not the only one that feels this way.

[…] Read the rest here […]

You and I both know Jefferson in real life, and the main reason I broke off relations with him after almost 2 years was the drinking. I laid it out on the table, and he chose the liquor. There were entire nights that he didn’t remember, and lord knows what transpired during those times.

Even though the kids were never exposed to the acts that vilify Jefferson, they have met people like you and I. I don’t think we’re bad people, and I don’t think we’ve put them in harms way… however that isn’t going to matter to the court. He meticulously planned around his family obligations, and that is very much noted in the blog. I hope that counts for something.

My blog was ousted by my family one dreary winter day and ended up getting me kicked out of my home. I know all too well how horrible this feels, and I do sometimes regret publicly posting… but in hindsight, I’m glad I did it. I don’t think I can say the same for him though. I sincerely hope things work out, but I can’t say that this wasn’t bound to happen sooner or later

Much love,
Secret Shelby aka Scarlett

I’m glad you spoke up. The situation is much larger then base cry for help mixed its own personalized logo to help fight the cause. It is a much larger issue, and I think its a shame that a lot of smart people in the blogging community are perpetuating what is in large part, a sham.

You are right, this man is enabled by the company he keeps, and based on the fact that he has been able to keep up with this life of no responsibility for a number of years now, the company he keeps is no surprise. Make no mistake, he is a smart loving man who has made a lot of people smile outside the bedroom as well as in, his sex life, his constant need to be on “Permafuck” and his consumption of Alcohol are large problems that he will never have to face as long as he continues to get a free ride.

There must be balance, and there must be truth, or else there is nothing, and no point to anything, you or anyone else in this community is doing.

Well said, Audacia. You live up to your name with this brave and cogent post.

This couldn’t have been easy. Glad you went with your gut and chose to exercise your First Amendment rights.

Good for you for speaking up.

Again, I don’t know Jefferson or know any of the situation in detail, but I do agree. I am more public with my blog than most, because I know I have much less to lose. My family (with the exception of my grandfather) knows about it, my jobs know about it, my friends and partners know about it. Were these not the circumstances, I would be MUCH less public about it, write far fewer details, etc.

I don’t have an answer for this, but I applaud you for writing down your true feelings.

Having met Jefferson a few times but obviously not enough to have the full picture, I’m still struggling to understand how any of this impacts on his ability to be a good dad. And that’s what we’re talking about here. Not Jefferson the lover or the blogger or the drinker or the unemployed guy but Jefferson, the dad. Is he neglecting his kids? Are they are in danger? Are they roaming the streets, getting into trouble because he hasn’t kept his eye on them. Because frankly, if he’s a good dad and he loves his kids and they love him, then the rest of this shit really doesn’t matter. Speaking as a parent, sex blogger and writer of a couple of pretty graphic books about my sex life, I’ve had the same kind of accusatory remarks hurled at myself; that because I write about my sex life in the public forum I must be a bad mom. And I’ve defended myself often enough that I don’t even want to begin to do it here. What everyone might like to do is remember that what this boils down to is being a good dad and his ability to raise kids. If that’s questionable, then the courts will decide.

[…] Waking Vixen » Blog Archive » The Dilemma of Jefferson: My Dissenting Voice "It would be simpler if this case was just about the issue of Jefferson’s bisexuality. But it isn’t." (tags: law legal blogging sexuality) […]

@Suzanne Portnoy

I think most people will agree that Jefferson seems like a good father and that without a doubt he loves them very much. The way I put it when I first heard of the custody challenge was that he was a terrible boyfriend but absolutely does not deserve to lose his kids.

I think the issue being raised by Dacia or myself and Tess now at Urban Gypsy, is whether or not the community should continue to support (enable) one our members who has not shown to be able or willing to support himself.

i really appreciate your perspective on this. i have very conflicted emotions about this - while i don’t think that jefferson should lose his kids, i have a hard time reconciling the picture painted by the FOJ with the guy who displayed such emotional callousness towards my friend. thanks for expressing your opinion in such a clear and concise way.

Sure, Avah, I totally get that but it seems to me there are alot of mixed messages here. If you don’t like the guy, then by all means, you don’t have to contribute to the fund. But basically what I’m saying is that irregardless of that, he doesn’t deserve to lose his kids because of some of the claims made against him, none of which have anything to do with his parenting skills.

I’m glad to see you raise these issues. While I think we should help Jefferson out for altruistic reasons, I also agree that he has given his ex a dagger to use on him. That having been said, it’s a sad situation that his ex can use his sexuality as a dagger to wound him this way.

Interestingly, when Jefferson’s “pussy posse” perceived me as attacking him about the age of his playmates, a gaggle of them descended on our blog and proceeded to denounce me. Jefferson even said I was “stalking” him, though I don’t read “One Life, Take Two.” Perhaps you will have better luck in pointing out some obvious contradictions in this very talented, but also apparently very troubled writer.

Suzanne Portnoy,
There are reasons (which have nothing at all to do w/ sexuality) to question Jefferson’s ability to provide for his kids, but I don’t feel comfortable bringing them up because it starts to veer into invasion of privacy territory, and it feels a little creepy to me. This is essentially a non-comment, I know, but I wanted to say *something*, just so people know that there *is* more to this story than even Dacia has posted here. There’s backstory that the casual blog reader won’t and can’t be expected to know.

It’s a tough topic all around, but yeah, there are things people will use against you given half a chance, and it does seem to be more than his sex life. I don’t see how what you’ve pointed out is anything making him a villain, he’s a human, with complicated human things going on in his life. I hope things turn out okay for him, but yes, it was a chance he took, undoubtedly knowing it could be a risky one.

[…] My comments on Dacia’s post from yesterday… […]

When I first came across this plea to financially throw him a bone, my heart strings were pulled. I hate the thought of someone losing their kids, especially if it’s a bid from a pot-smoking mother to dig the knife a little deeper into her ex’s back. (He’s mentioned that their oldest son knows his mother smokes pot, so couldn’t she potentially lose her kids for that?) I cannot, however, forget that he asked for Christmas presents for his kids this past year, money to move when his former in-laws decided to evict him, and now money for legal fees. At what point does the panhandling stop? My husband and I are almost broke ourselves, is it right for us to ask others (besides my immediate/extended blood family) to support us if an emergency happened?

I’m neutral in this b/c I don’t know him, only read his blog and twitter, but I am becoming a bit more callused to his plight. If he is indeed an alcoholic, then it’s something to be dealt with, not enabled.

Thank you for this post. I wobbled about putting up a link to the appeal, and then decided to post it, partly because I’ve been grateful for the support of bloggers when I’ve needed it.

I’m torn on the issue. As a blogger, the idea of what I write being used against me strikes fear into my heart, but it’s a risk that I accept I take, and the consequences would not be so extreme. It’s obvious that there is so much more than accusations of bisexuality being used as a weapon here.

The fact remains that without the proof of the blog, it’s entirely possible that Jefferson’s ex would have no idea of what he did in his spare time, and he is hardly the only parent in the world to have secrets. But the fact also remains that he has courted publicity, which always risked exposing his children to the rest of his life, and that could count more against him than bukkake parties, or some of the other stories floating around the blogosphere.

Brave post.

I know what I’m about to say is a bit of a cliche, but is no-one thinking of the children here. I don’t feel qualified to pass judgement on Jefferson, his predilictions, his suitability as a father or whatever, but that’s not even the point. Somehow, the courts will have to make a judgement on what is best for the children, by weighing up their mother’s story against their father’s. Currently, their mother has the money to put her case strongly, and their father does not, and in a legal system that’s fueled by money, that’s not a healthy state of affairs.

What I would say to anyone who doesn’t know whether to contribute or not, is not to do so on the basis of whether you think Jefferson deserves to keep his kids. Do it if you think his children deserve to have both sides of the story put in front of whoever is going to make judgement, so that they have the best possible information on which to make that decision.

Having said that, however, I think we should all take note of the mistakes Jefferson has made that has got him in this situation, if only to ensure we don’t to the same to our families. I wish him luck, but I suspect this won’t end well for him.

A very brave and important post. Thank you for this, Audacia.

But Suzanne, did Jefferson ask you to take down your Huffington Post piece? Or was that okay because it was in support of him? (For the record, he didn’t ask me to take down my Tumblr posts, just to not further comment on it unless I was copying and pasting verbatim the FOJ text).

I think there are valid reasons for many to support his custody case, and by all means, I think people should contribute to the Friends of Jefferson Fund if they wish to. But I’m pretty shocked and outraged at the idea being put forth that the only discussion about this should be, well, no discussion. Just repost that plea and agree with it because you’re a “sex-positive” blogger. I think that’s bullshit and reflects poorly on him. Clearly, several people have dissenting voices, and to try to shut down that discussion in the name of a custody battle - well, that’s Jefferson’s right, but aside from any issues about his lifestyle people have, makes me not want any part of that “cause.”

No Rachel, he didn’t ask me to shut it down. To be fair, all of this seems to have opened up a huge can of worms that has very little to do (at least from what has been written on various blogs) about Jefferson the parent but lots to do with his not-so-personal life.

@RKB I agree with you completely about the censorship. I think people should be able to make an informed decision about whether to donate to him and that can’t be done without debate (not gossip) and seeing both sides of the spectrum. The FOJ post is absolutely ludicrous and is basically written like a scam- painting Jefferson as a victim and his case is going to protect all of our rights.

Famous court cases are debated all the time on TV while the case is still happening. The law is supposed to be impartial. And besides, I really doubt Jefferson’s ex needs any more proof against him. Nothing new is really being said.

Yeah, I fucked pretty much all of these commenters. Bitches weren’t complaining then.

Have fun with the flaying, y’all.

Wow. Jefferson, you’re worried about how what these women say about you impacts your case when you’re willing to write a comment like that? Way to lose all sympathy from those who might have otherwise felt for you

I read all the comments and I was ready to play devils advocate. Truly, I was. Then I read Jeffersons comment.

While I admit that I don’t know the whole story, I do know this-

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Isn’t that how it goes? Well, shame on me.

Instead of leaving comments like the one you left here, Jefferson, why not leave well enough alone? You said yourself that every discussion was an email waiting to be sent to the State of New York. Is that what you want them to see from you?

We all have problems and issues. It’s how we handle those problems and issues that the world sees. How are you going to handle the things that have been said? What are you showing the world right now, Jefferson?

Audacia, I haven’t been here very often but it’s an oversight that I will correct. You stated your thoughts and opinions like an adult and you’re to commended for that.

Not me, Jefferson, and “bitches” hardly earns you friends in a time when it seems you might need them. Your situtation is unfortunate for certain, and yes, probably very unfair in many regards, but is further alienating people or bragging about your alleged sexual conquests at this time really, oh, the smartest thing in the world to be doing?

Oh and by the way, just to clarify…
I may certainly be a bitch, but I have never (as he so eloquently put it) been fucked by Jefferson.

{Sorry, Audacia…had to clear up that one small detail.}

Have to echo The Butterfly Temptress - you can decide whether I’m a bitch or not, but I’ve never fucked Jefferson either (we may be a small minority, but we exist!).

Full disclosure, yes, I did fuck Jefferson, back in early 2005. But my lack of wholehearted enthusiasm for the Friends of Jefferson fundraising campaign is not related to that.

As to whether I’m a bitch? Eh. It’s in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. But when people throw that word around my reaction tends to be, “Consider the source.”

Actually I’m pretty sure I complained the whole 2 years I was with Jefferson.

My apologies for the comment. It was not helpful.

I just woke in a world of hurt today, seeing how so many people I’ve cared about and trusted are now treating me with such cruelty and disdain. I guess the stress got to me; this is a very trying time.

So I will do the smart thing and work, leaving this to y’all.

Wow. Somehow even though I have been a somewhat vocal opponent of Jefferson’s actions for some time now, a fact he has been aware of through my friendship with Diva, even I would not have predicted a comment from him showing such a depth of contentment for women.

I have a question. Does Jefferson take issue with the facts as they are presented or simply that they have been presented at all?

And for the record, I have never fucked Jefferson.

Whoah.

I read one of the pleas yesterday with a lot of confusion & some resentment, but only hunch-based since a) I don’t personally know Jefferson (and certainly haven’t fucked him), and b) I’ve only read maybe 3 halves of blog posts from him; I linked to him & figured my readers might be interested in what he had to say & he seemed to be a blog celebrity and nice guy with an interesting angle, but I personally never got hooked on reading him so couldn’t totally put my finger on why I was annoyed by the plea for help, but it was something like, “if this guy spent this much time away from home fucking & socializing, and this much time blogging, I wonder what his wife and kids were left doing all that time — clearly internet friends have no real clue what was up and I really fucking doubt the whole thing hinges on his bisexuality, and if his blog details a lifestyle that took a lot of time and energy away from being an active parent AND/OR is an indicator of what an awesome dad he is and how much he loves his kids, then of course it’s relevant to the case and has nothing to do with a violation of first amendment rights; it (was) a fucking public blog! There’s no right guaranteeing that when you self-publish on the internet, you then get to decide who reads it (aka not judges and lawyers and court-appointed advocates, but everyone else!).

I guess what pissed me off is that I was being guilted into blindly supporting a stranger under the guise of being outraged about civil rights violations that *are* really heavy and people *are* under fire for everyday, but are probably not the whole (or even part when it comes to his blog being used against him) foundation of his problems and this confirms it. Strangers on the internet have no clue what the whole story is in a situation like this and using discrimination & free speech to garner sympathy and raise money for a guy whose life is a fucking mess where his kids don’t appear to be the number one or two priority he acts on, probably in large part due to his own choices (not just his orientation or blogging), annoys me when there really are people being unfairly persecuted for their sex preference or the actual media they’ve created. They’re not trying to put him in prison for blogging about bisexuality and wild and crazy partying (but people ARE being prosecuted for making porn, writing obscene stories, etc. elsewhere), they’re using his own words as evidence in a custody case which I think is totally fucking fair game. In the absence of information that’s none of the WWW’s business, if someone isn’t really a REAL LIFE friend of Jefferson I think it’s fucked up to call this a discrimination and free speech issue that we should all care about and ask us to take sides against his wife and potentially his kids if he really may not in a position to have custody of them (not that any non meatworld friend could possibly BE in a position to judge that).

I don’t know how Suzanne Portnoy can say that a major drinking problem doesn’t say anything about someone’s parenting abilities or suitability for custody once a single parent. That’s just ludicrous. And saying “lose his kids” as though he’s going to be sent to a gulag instead of just not having full or partial custody is a little over the top.

E: the remark, “all of this seems to have opened up a huge can of worms that has very little to do (at least from what has been written on various blogs) about Jefferson the parent but lots to do with his not-so-personal life.”

When strangers are being manipulated into thinking major civil rights injustices are taking place that are somehow applicable to all sex positive bloggers & other large groups of people and by contributing money we would somehow be helping to fight those injustices, it’s fair to bring up his “not-so-personal life” to let people know this is probably a PERSONAL problem, not so much a chilling legal problem with grave implications for all of us who have sex blogs, aren’t straight, have kids, etc.

I don’t wish Jefferson ill — my interest in the discussion has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the rest of us; I *don’t* think his personal life has much or anything to do with me and I resent being lured into thinking it does when there are so many more clearcut cases of civil rights violations out there that we could funnel money and attention towards fighting.

I probably don’t belong in this conversation because a) I don’t know Jefferson, b) I’m not a “sex blogger” (but I’m an erotica writer) and c) I’m not a part of the circle of people who all know each other’s dirt behind the blogs. However, I did read Jefferson’s blog off and on and, as with other “anonymous” sex bloggers I’ve read over the years, was surprised at what he was willing to write about– “anonymously,” of course, without seeming to realize the repercussions if he were found out.

There seems to be a major ego-trip at play here and it all boils down to personal responsibility. Jefferson chose to share his personal life as “a parent, and pervert, living in New York City.” Um… hello? Get out much? That little catch phrase is going to raise eyebrows in 95% of the population. The fact that he wrote his blog anonymously suggests he knew what he was writing could be used against him. The fact that he continued to do so, under a thinner and thinner veil of so-called anonymity, suggests he didn’t care about being found out. That seems to be the Achilles heel of some anonymous bloggers– they crave attention (and book and film deals) and the only way to get that attention is to “reveal” more and more of themselves. Now that he’s having his words used against him, Jefferson cares. He cares big time. He can’t cry foul when he set himself up– and he can’t ask others not to blog about whatever the hell they want to blog about (including his not-so-private personal life) when he didn’t have the sense to exercise some restraint in his own blog.

This case– and Jefferson’s plea for donations– is not about Jefferson being a sex blogger, it’s about whether Jefferson is a fit parent. I haven’t a clue whether Jefferson is a good father and I’m guessing most of the people who are making donations to his fund don’t have a clue, either. Based on what I’ve read on his blog, he seems to love his children very much. Love, however, does not equal good parenting. Sorry, it just doesn’t. The fact that he is begging for financial assistance from “his” people in the sex positive/sex blogger community, suggests he doesn’t understand what personal responsibility is all about and is trying to make a tenuous connection between his screwed up life and the sex blogging community. What next? Will he be asking for donations to take his kids to Disney World? Does that make him a good parent? Does anyone want to donate to my animal fund, because I have a bunch of ailing pets with medical problems? No? Why not? Oh, right, it’s my problem I took in a bunch of homeless animals, not yours. Good thing I have excellent credit, since my vet bills were over ten grand last year.

Jefferson and his ex are not the first couple to become embroiled in a custody battle. Please. I know four couples who have been through the same thing in the past year. And if you’ve ever witnessed (or experienced) a custody fight, you know this to be fact: any and all dirt will be hung out for all to see. Anything you’ve ever done will be used against you. Custody fights are nasty things. Drug and alcohol problems, physical and verbal abuse, workaholic tendencies, extramarital affairs, questionable parenting skills, relatives who have served time in prison, inability to provide a nurturing home environment, moving cross country for a boyfriend, manic depression– I’ve seen all of these used as reasons for one parent to get sole custody. Jefferson may want to present himself as the first beleaguered father (or mother) to have to defend himself in court, but he’s not– nor will he be the last. The fact that he’s trying to tie this to some bigger cause is laughable– this isn’t about freedom of speech or creating a happy, sex-positive world. And, contrary to what Jefferson has posted on his now defunct blog, this isn’t about “three children.” This, like his blog, is all about Jefferson and what Jefferson wants and what Jefferson perceives as the wrong that has been done to him by his ex, who has her own agenda. Where’s her fund?

In a perfect world, we could all write what we want to write without fear of repercussions. Hell, in a perfect world, marriage would last forever and custody fights wouldn’t exist. We don’t live in a perfect world and Jefferson knows this, which is why he wrote his blog anonymously. He can’t now pretend he didn’t know the risks and play the victim while others foot the bill.

Like other people have said, there is more going on here than just Jefferson’s side of the story. There always is. Before people go throwing their money at his “cause,” they might want to consider that this is not about Jefferson the sex blogger. This is about Jefferson the father. I’m not saying Jefferson is a bad father– but I can’t say he’s a good father, either. Can you?

Thanks for writing about this, Audacia.

@Kristina wright- You brought up a very valid point about child custody disputes. So many of us have been there. I really do feel for Jefferson, not only because I know how former spouses can be but because I know that right about now he’s probably wishing he could go back and make all of it go away. The thing is, he can’t. It’s there and it’s not going away. As I said before, how he handles it is completely up to him.

People believe that if they put something on the web and decide later to delete it that it magically goes away. Not so. It’s there and it may very well be there years from now. That’s how this thing works.

We all make mistakes. We all do things that we are less than proud of and usually it’s using supposed anonimity to do it. We’re not anonymous. Not a single one of us, whether we use our real names or pen names. We’re out there. Anyone who wants to find out who we are badly enough will find a way to do it. That most certainly includes former spouses and pissed off family members.

Situations like this are going to make it hard for the next guy or gal who really does need help because their sexuality truly is the issue. It’s going to make all of us hesitate to open our pockets to fellow members of the blogging community, even when the need is real and the story is true. In a world where all too often we’re left to fight alone this is the last thing we needed; to once again be reminded that things are not always what they seem.

Do onto others, Jefferson.

I have not fucked Jefferson. Hell, I don’t even know the man. What I do know is that I came across the FOJ banner on someone’s website and my automatic reaction was outrage and sympathy. I have a supportive family, even though I’m a pain junkie with submissive tendencies and write dirty, dirty novels with an autobiographical bent. So of course I wanted to help in any way I could. But something held me back? What? I honestly don’t know.

I could have easily clicked on the link, made a donation, posted the link on my blog and encouraged others to do the same but something just didn’t sit well with me.

Because of a severe allergy, I have no children. (Yes, you can be allergic to children.) But as a person who has seen a good friend go down a similar road, I know how 1) Alcoholism can affect a child. 2) One’s sexual leanings can affect a child (this is not the case with everyone, of course)

We all have the God given (or whatever deity or non-deity you chose) right to pursue our bliss. Whether it be sexually, monetarily, etc but as a person who is responsible for shaping and molding a young impressionable mind I’d think there’d be some restraint in the mix.

Yeah, I fucked pretty much all of these commenters. Bitches weren’t complaining then.

Have fun with the flaying, y’all.

This doesn’t equal restraint to me. And neither does some of the information in this post. Once again, I am an outsider looking in but I am an outsider who almost became involved (by my donation and encouraging others to do the same) without all the information. Sure, I still don’t have all the information but I have more than I started out with and I thank you for that Audacia.

signed Anonymous for a reason

This comment is not to dispute what has already been said or to defend anything Jefferson has said/done/written. I will purposely make this vague so that even he doesn’t know who is writing it.

I can’t speak for anyone else’s experience but my own, but if we are going to talk about his character - I think someone has to say something positive before he is completely crucified.

I met Jefferson and he opened his home to me. He invited me to share my fantasies and then he made them come true. He’s never judged me and has allowed me to explore my sexuality in a safe environment. For this I truly thank him.

As for those who say he took from you - people can’t take from you what you don’t willingly give them.

“I met Jefferson and he opened his home to me. He invited me to share my fantasies and then he made them come true.”

“As for those who say he took from you - people can’t take from you what you don’t willingly give them.”

Tell me your deep dark secrets, your fantasies and I will then make them miraculously come true. I will then use them and everything I learn along the way to manipulate you. I will listen to you, stroke you. comfort you when significant others won’t, and yes even be a friend to you. Actually look up the definition of a sociopath and you stand corrected. Welcome to the world of personality disorders.

Bottom line is when you have children and are divorced, custody is always going to be an issue. That means that your JUDGMENT is going to be questioned. After all you are responsible for shaping the morals of these children you bore. Having lived a very colorful life myself and being a single parent, one of the things you learn is to never, ever bring your residence into the picture. I don’t care who the hell you fuck (ie your random one nighters), but don’t bring them into your house. You don’t know who the hell they are - who knows when the person you figured was so innocent has the switch flipped and decides to stalk and go after you (and your family). Bad judgment. Drinking: we all have had times of excess but when the folks around you are starting to make comments, supposed loved ones - take note. And blogging - well as much as we all would like it to be truly anonymous. It isn’t. Never assume it is.

What is sad is that many of us like/love J. Should he lose custody …no. Will it be restricted - likely. My first husband’s was restricted due to alcohol. Bottom line is you have to show good judgment. As much as we all like to rebel against the system (particularly myself), sometimes you HAVE to play the game. It is a wake up call. It is also a wake up call on that you can’t always pull out the smoke and mirrors and expect everyone to follow.

If there is a “committee”, why not state who is on the committee? Political advertisements have to add who paid for the advertisement, so why not state something like that? It would certainly look more legit.

@Anonymous 2 re: “people can’t take from you what you don’t willingly give them.”

Are you for real???

Trixie,
That made me do a serious double-take as well.

“As for those who say he took from you - people can’t take from you what you don’t willingly give them.”

Really? Tell that to the guy who raped me when I was 12. Did I willingly give up my virginity b/c he got me drunk and drug me off onto the beach, and I thought at the time we were just going for a walk? Come on. Don’t be so banal.

OK, if you’re a female blogger and you’re doing this I want you to close your eyes and imagine you have children and a sex-blog (unless your commenters are also children, in which case, how fun! kids are so innocent! i love teddy bears!). If you’re like me, you might already be thinking that you’re gonna use a psuedonym for the kids’ sake, that you’ll hold certain things back (”hey, i hear your dad fucked five girls last weekend!” isn’t music to any child’s ears).

‘Cause let’s be honest: “sex-positive” doesn’t mean the same thing for women as it does for men. I’ve literally had my entire life fall to pieces because of my internet presence, so I know how fucking ridiculous the cyber-police are when it comes to what the rest of the world is legally allowed to take issue with.

For me, “sex positive” means that, although I’m a woman, I’m still allowed to desire and crave things, that all sex isn’t rape, that sexuality is fluid and that I shouldn’t be ashamed of my own — all things that men take for granted. So I just think it’s silly for anyone to use that term across genders, sorry. I’m with RKB’s unrest for the term in this application as well.

I never read Jefferson’s blog — I’d always link to it ’cause everyone did, and he seemed to be a sex celeb, but I never got into it I guess.

[Also: that apology up there is lame. He said it. Not some bad version of him, not some “not me” psychological “having a hard time” whatevs. HE said it. And you can’t just support words and freedom of speech when it works for your agenda. But of course he wants to erase what he just did because he’s not into repercussions, just action, obvs!]

He’s pissed because he doesn’t think about repercussions, he just thinks about action and then more action — he says something douchebaggy, he apologizes, there, done, move on, like there is no past, only now, he is in charge of the present. He can tell RKB to stop writing about him but not address his non-desire to censor HuffPo. He can call everyone a bitch and then apologize. Just as he’s entitled to drink as much as he wants and still expect privileges (I don’t know any woman who carries that kind of entitlement) like actually having girls around him. He’s entitled to being the king of the male sex blog-gods. He’s entitled to have everything just the way he wants it.

I can’t imagine thinking I could blog about sex and my children and think it couldn’t be held against me. If his character was as sterling as he says it was and the blog doesn’t speak to that, then I’d imagine his wife would probably want to give him custody.

I can’t imagine thinking that because I don’t feel entitlement. I don’t expect everything to go my way and if it doesn’t — I’ll find a way to make it my way. I expect that if I do something, I might have to live with the reaction, not just new action.

Those moments when the self-doubt kicks in my mind: “can i say this? will this be used against me?” — I hate that, like RKB said in her post there’s nothing that pisses me off more than being told what i can and can’t write. Literally I’ve lost things, jobs, friends, people, I’ve had total breakdowns over that exact situation, I fucking love my freedom of speech more than I even love employment or health, apparently.

But just because it’s liberating doesn’t mean it’s necessary. He just never thought it could be used against him, because he never imagines that anyone will dare to cross his path — and if they do, they’ll never win because he has the support of the sex-bloggers behind him. That’s your part, people. This is the part where you rise up behind him like he always thought you would, or you go run your own show that’s responsible and pragmatic.

P.S. [I just read that and wanted to be sure that it’s clear that in no way is that comment meant to imply that I think non-monogamy is inherently an irresponsible lifestyle to talk about when you have children, ’cause that’s not what I believe. I mean — I believe quite strongly in non-monogamy but I also know it’s complicated — usually even more complicated than “traditional” relationships, just like a single Mom who’s actively dating has to think about her children in a way she didn’t when she’d dated before having them — and I’d expect anyone, whether in a monogamous or non-monogamous relationship or actively dating or gay or a monkey or a donkey or a pineapple or whatevs — to take whatever degree of responsibility is necessary to ensure that they handle their own sexualities while child-rearing with a certain degree of consciousness, and tact. I wouldn’t want the father of my children calling women “bitches” in a public forum, or drinking enough that he could potentially be really irresponsible while posting. And certainly not one who doesn’t even sound humble in his requests for help. It’s never “can you do this for me?” it seems instead to be; “c’mon, you have to do this, it would be lame/”bad for children”/in violation of the first ammendment and your sex positivity not to!”]

Okay. I’m not a member of the whole community that’s grown around having sex with Jefferson. I just read the blogs sometimes because my life is pretty dull and it’s nice to think that someone, somewhere, is having fun.

Here’s what it looks like to me. To Jefferson’s detractors, this is about their reasons for not liking him. (Which are totally legitimate.) And to his supporters, this is about a custody case. (Which is also legitimate.) And everyone has selective memories.

Look, I don’t mean this as an attack on anyone. But I’ve seen a lot of the names here in past posts elsewhere, gushing about Jefferson like he was this magical guy who transported them to this whole new world that was in them all along. As far as I can tell, all of the writers got together with him willingly, and in most cases repeatedly. This is NOT to say that any awful behavior towards you was your fault — that’s all on him. (Unless you requested it, in which case he should have been more sensitive… unfortunately, this can be said for a lot of doms.) Maybe you felt manipulated or taken advantage of — and if you feel that way, then it’s fair to say you were. That’s a risk you take with anyone. From my perspective, Jefferson has a big sign over him that says “this man will sleep with anyone that shows up at his door - proceed with caution, even if you think you’re cool with it,” but it probably looks different from ground-level. As it were.

“Enable” is an apt word. But what was being enabled? I think it was Jefferson’s own self-perception. And, you know, if I kept seeing myself written about in glowing terms, or periodically being consulted as an “expert,” or being given everything I asked for, I might start feeling a little invincible, too. Would I do something as massively stupid as post a lot of identifying characteristics on my salacious anonymous blog? I’d like to think I wouldn’t. But, then, my life isn’t that interesting.

And now everything’s blown up, and there are people poking at the debris and talking about how they never really thought he was all that. A lot of the people doing the poking haven’t publicly said anything negative about Jefferson in the past. (Yes, you are entitled to change your mind. Please bear with me.) I know that if it seemed to me that the people who I thought had my back were coming at me with torches, I’d be pretty upset. Throw in a legal battle, and it would feel a lot like getting kicked when I was down. I might even stupidly, offensively lash out. And I’d wonder why, if everyone hated me so much, they didn’t say anything to me about it in private. (Yes, you may have actually spoken with him before. Again: Selective memory.)

For the record, I’m not donating any money, because a) I’m broke, and b) I don’t have enough objective information about the case. That’s why I’ve been reading the blogs - I keep hoping that someone has a link to objective information unclouded by rhetoric and bad experiences. Because until then, it’s just me and my long-ass perspective, and the Nancy Drew in me just wants the facts.

[…] — Commenter riese on that ongoing thread […]

Clearly when I said that people can’t take what what you don’t give them I was talking about the situation at hand - women giving Jefferson money, booze, gifts for his children. Did he force them to give these things? Hardly.

As for him manipulating people when they told him their fantasies - he is a 44 year old man, divorced, 3 kids, has a sex blog, fucks half the population, drinks likes a fish and states openly he is not looking for monogamy on his website. If you had delusions that this man was going to become emotionally involved with you or make some kind of commitment to you then you need to use your common sense. Wake up ladies, wake up.

@Anonymous 2 Well then lucky you for not being deluded into thinking he actually gave a flying fuck about you or any of the people that walked through that door.

Jefferson is a man with 1,000 faces and the way he is with any 2 people will always be different. And while some of it is standard behavior with every person (the same kisses, the same googly eyes, the same lies), every time I talk to another lover of his I find out something astonishing that I never knew before. And this is after being with him for 2 fucking years.

Half the ladies you’re telling to “wake up” haven’t even fucked the man. And the other half finally stopped.

But you’re sitting there defending him. Who is that really needs to wake up?

I’m not defending him or anything he has done. I’m only pointing out the obvious.

Rock on, Riese(’s comments)! One thing that made me stop and think though was the notion of men being able to take for granted sex positive stuff like “fluid sexuality”: that’s one area where men really do not have it as good as women, in exploring their pansexuality, which is probably why this whole “on the grounds I’m bisexual!” claim is such a key issue.

@some chick You broke everyone down into two camps: Jefferson’s “detractors” and his supporters. Again, it’s not about that for a lot of us who are critical of the FOJ’s plea for money & attention. It’s about someone’s (could be anyone’s in Jefferson’s position) trying to turn his personal problems into civil rights issues. This is not all about us (especially those who don’t know him, don’t read him, never fucked him, etc.) not liking him, it’s about whether or not we should champion his cause and throw $20k at him as a civil rights case that has implications for all kinky parents, bi dads, sex bloggers, etc.

When you see “it can happen to you” and in bold, “among her claims is that his bisexuality makes him an unfit parent” you have to wonder . . . hmmm, could this really happen to me? Or is there a fuck of a lot of info being withheld here (like that he has a serious substance abuse problem)? What are his ex’s OTHER claims and might some of them be really legit? Is boiling them down to bisexuality an oversimplification and/or a downright manipulation/dishonest misrepresentation of his predicament (like maybe changing “he cheated on me with a whole bunch of partners and had sex with men and did all of this in irresponsible ways” to “he had sex with MEN!”)?

As a pansexual pornographer with a kinky internet presence who plans to have kids with her transsexual partner, I care about civil rights issues like the ones being USED here, and I do think scary things are happening in the halls and backrooms of “justice” that are discriminatory, violate the first amendment, and are just totally FUCKED that could RUIN MY LIFE, my kids’ lives if we do wind up having any, and my partner’s life. So I take it kind of personally when someone (and his supporters) misleads people into thinking he is in one of those situations created solely by discriminatory legal practices and social norms. It’s like crying wolf for help when you set your own pants on fire; like another commenter posted, it takes money and attention away from cases and situations that really deserve it AND makes it that much harder for critics to believe it when progressive folks complain about someone’s rights being trampled.

For all of my alt lifestyle ways, Jefferson’s situation COULD NOT happen to me, and again, I resent being told it could and that he needs $20k so I can keep being kinky and blogging about it, etc. I really appreciate being given a little peek at more of the truth, and I don’t think any FOJ have yet said, “that about him having a serious drinking problem is a bald-faced lie!” I appreciate hearing from someone who knows him that there is more to this than a great dad being called an unfit parent just because he’s bi and blogs about it.

I never thought that I would see the day where I would feel the need to defend Jefferson but here I am doing just that.

I appreciate the new consensus that the emperor really doesn’t have any clothes.

But you knew that didn’t you? Or did you? Why now? Why not when he asked for Christmas presents, created an Amazon gift list, needed money to move, etc.? If memory serves, at least a few of you came through willingly for him those times. You knew then that he didn’t have any money and that he didn’t work a 9-5 job. It’s not as though this is a new development in his life.

Suddenly, it’s a problem for him to ask for money. If you don’t want to give for whatever reason then don’t. It’s really that simple. If you want to help him out then click the link and donate.

It appears to me that many have taken this opportunity to voice long harbored issues with Jefferson. Although some of these problems may be valid, why would you choose **now** to do it when he is obviously at a low point in his life? I find it shockingly cruel and beyond unsupportive.

Seems like when the going was good, many were willing to participate in his lifestyle. Now that there is trouble is has become a “personal problem” that Jefferson needs to bear alone. Weren’t some of you his friends?

Although Jefferson’s comment up thread is bad form, I have to say that if I put myself in his place, I would feel betrayed too. Today, he is an unemployed, on-the-verge of being homeless, drunk who quite possibly can’t take care of his kids. A few days ago, he was bon vivant Jefferson who introduced you to a side of yourself that you had been waiting all your life to discover. And you were so smitten that you had to tell the world on your blogs.

One of you dated him for two years. You must have liked something about him?

Another one of you was willing to put your name on a lease for him even though you are married to someone who presumably wouldn’t be aware of it. Should your marriage break up, would that be good for your own custody issues?

Seems petty and fickle to turn on Jefferson now. You’ve had all the time that you’ve known him to do it. Why now?

Ok. Diatribe over.

@sapphire graham: while i understand and appreciate your point of view, i don’t think you realise the extent to which jefferson has manipulated these women.

i’ll disclose my own history first. i actually was not aware of the fact that jefferson does not keep a dayjob, or indeed any sort of job, until recently. i dated him briefly, but limited my contact with him after it became clear to me that my efforts to be with him were not reciprocated. this took the form of him cancelling a long weekend we were to spend together - i live in dc and had planned an entire photoshoot in new york around what i thought was a gap in his schedule. i still went to new york that weekend but i stayed with avah and didn’t see him. after that i decided that my trips to new york would be on my terms, not his.

and so it went for a few months, as i watched him treat avah with ever more disdain. she had serious issues with another relationship of his, and instead of listening to her he told her that she was being irrational and, basically, that her needs in the relationship didn’t matter. and avah really, really cared for him, so much so that she actually fronted him money for a trip in an attempt to repair the relationship. of course it didn’t work out - and the fact that she had lent him money made their breakup that much messier.

i will say that i thought jefferson’s christmas and apartment-moving solicitations were weird. at that point i was unaware of jefferson’s unemployment and the extent to which he was depending on his partners for money. it actually came as something of a shock to me, since during my visits to his upscale former apartment he tended to treat me. i am sure that i’m not the only woman in his life kept in the dark about his finances.

and as for the women who enabled him with financial support - well, i don’t know what your relationship history is, but i have, to my shame, found myself being manipulated like this in a relationship before. when IS a good time to come to terms with the fact that you’ve been conned? this is a really horrible time for jefferson, and i don’t envy him his position nor do i want his custody yanked, but when you’re dealing with a whole bunch of women who are in some cases just discovering how much wool has been pulled over their eyes i think you’ll find them hard-pressed to continue to put jefferson’s well-being over their own.

Here is what I personally love about this thread (and I say love with every bit of dripping sarcasm I can muster.) Everyone seems to be insisting that the FOJ plea for assistance left out details. That clearly this can’t be a custody case solely involving his sexuality and bisexuality. No, clearly the FOJ was lying and left out how there is alcohol abuse and his history of taking advantage of poor wayward adult woman who could not see from the very beginning that Jefferson was not going to treat them like the girlfriend/lover/partner that they fantasized about.

But do any of you know that? Have any of you seen the lawsuit on file? Have any of you seen the legal documents?

Nope. You haven’t.

And now, everyone KNOWS that it includes alcohol and womanizing. Now its become FACT, because it has been written on a BLOG. This game of telephone that you have all played in these comments has become truly ridiculous.

Some of you are here for sport. Some of you are gleeful to finally get the chance to kick the man when he is at his lowest. Some of you hope he loses his kids - out of spite.

It’s a shame. By pointing your fingers, you all look equally bad.

@Trixie — totally right on that, men do have a harder time being accepted for sexual fluidity without a doubt. I guess that’s why he’s pulling out that one thing. Although I feel like when it comes to the legal system and custody issue, that’s one place where women and men are treated equally (poorly) when it comes to bisexuality.

@boymeat — I think some people are here because it’s an interesting conversation that pertains to other sex-bloggers, writers and crusaders, because Jefferson himself started the dialogue, and because he’s asking for money in a way that suggests those of us who believe in sexual freedom ought to feel obligated to contribute and support.

Personally, I’m here ’cause I’m hoping that cases like his don’t overshadow people fighting for real sex-positive causes. Or maybe ’cause I couldn’t sleep last night.

I think people are saying these things about him because they are true, not because they enjoy pointing fingers. Right? It’s not being pulled out of thin air.

I just think freedom of speech deserves a better spokesperson. I don’t want him to be the sex-blogger freedom of speech ambassador.

Just would like to clarify as well; I too have never fucked Jefferson, and it seems like that was a gross over generalization.

Really, I was ok with being relatively neutral on this, but that was a rude and immature response. We’re supposed to give money to someone who calls women (including those he slept with) bitches?

Yeah.

*grumbles*

Good lord how pathetic. I am coming into this discussion as someone wholly out of this blogging community… heard about this trhought the grapevine. what a disgrace what SHAMEFUL enterprise this legal defense fund. The dude mixed things in a twisted way, sure well written, but so what, I’m sure there are some brilliantly revealing artistic poems by child molesters for their love of kids, or whatver, the point is the dude is a frikken creep. This is coming from someone who regularly fights for freedom of expression, involved in multiple causes to that effect. Those taking up this cause are enabling an a-hole, plain and simple. He is abusing the good faith of his friends in this effort. its is truly trully disgusting and just pathetic that so many have taken up his cause. Shame on everyone taking up this cause in the name of free speech, in the name of sexual positivity, bullshit. you are enabling horrible distasteful behavior. The guy is just not a nice person whatever happened to that?

I just want to thank you for posting this.
Not because I know any of you or Jefferson, but because I’ve been reading all these intertwined blogs for years now, and while I enjoyed the sexual content….I found the entries about Jefferson’s children to be widely inappropriate and infuriating..and it infuriated me that nobody else seemed to mind it. Rather the opposite, they found it perfectly normal to read about a child’s Christmas in between sex stories. That they felt charmed enough by it all to go fuck him based on that material… and not just fuck him, but take risks, experiment, engage in risky scenarios just made me grow more and more baffled. Not only that, I had to wonder if they had gone back into his archives as far as I had to read scenarios which involved less then honest/safe STI prevention, and scenarios where he seemed to be bullying girls into consenting to certain situations (ie. the random dudes coming over to watch them fuck for money). You could link to the girls blog and read the mixed emotions.

It was his choice to interject his kids into his sex blogging life, and now it’s his choice to try and exploit his sexuality as a victim during his custody battle. I’m sorry, but there are more issues at play then his interest in fucking men. He’s just trying to play bloggers sympathies. I assure you there are incidents even his routine partners had no knowledge of. I can not imagine how that many people going in and out of his apartment made for a healthy environment for his children. Were Jeffersons friends allowed in the kids rooms, or does he have that many spare bedrooms to fuck in? And anyway, who has time to fuck that many people, make a living, and raise multiple kids? I just do not understand, and I just don’t understand why so many people walked into that house and fucked him without questioning the same damn thing I did just from reading his blog. Now I’m not entitled to know more then what he puts out there public… but please don’t con job us now because you have to take responsibility for the fuck machine lifestyle persona he created.

@boymeat: why all of this “kicking him while he’s down” talk? these are blog comments, and i thought people were allowed discussion and aired grievances, no?

Some people seem genuinely concerned about the man, and others (quite a lot of commenters, actually) seem to have problems with him. Should they be discussed privately? Maybe. But who put the private discussion in the public domain? Jefferson. If one does not want speculation and discussion, then one should not bring it up.

All bubbles burst. Sadly, this may be that moment for him. Supporters have every right to feel upset if you think he’s being backed into a corner; but the reality is that he’s in the public forum divulging way too much information for someone who has children to think about! Sure, we can love his sex stories, but we can also be concerned for his family. We can also question why there are 3 pleas for money within a year. We have that right to question when it’s presented to us. When a panhandler on the street, seemingly well-dressed and well-fed, comes up asking for cash, do you automatically give it? I certainly don’t. I prefer to initiate the talk of giving away MY money. My money that I slaved to get.

Also, did anyone actually say they hope he loses his kids? I don’t remember seeing that comment. If one does believe it, however, maybe it’s because s/he hopes Jefferson gets a wake-up call that so many seem to agree he needs. Do I think he needs a wake-up call? I don’t know him. I just know the discussion on these blogs. His reality isn’t for me to decide. It’s his to create. These seem to be the consequences of that reality.

@Boymeat I think you should just stay out of things you really don’t belong in. Your beef is with me anyways, right?

The point isn’t even what the lawsuit actually says, it’s more about informing people who Jefferson really is before they go throwing their money away to a cause that should not be monitarily supported whatsoever.

@Avah - I have a “beef” with you? Hardly. The point IS precisely what the lawsuit says. The original post and subsequent comments have somehow perpetuated a new truth in which Jefferson is risking losing his kids because of alcohol and poor choices in women. Which is simply not the case.

Why would the SFDFEL have even agreed to take on the case if the lawsuit was solely targeting sexual preferences? Do you really think they would have put themselves out on the line if alcohol abuse and other lovely issues were included in the case? No, they wouldn’t.

It IS about being bisexual and a parent at the same time. It IS about being able to maintain a sex life and be able to talk about it on a blog and still be a parent. In many ways, this IS a sexual freedom case.

Is Jefferson a perfect man? Hardly. Is he a close friend of mine? Nope. But I do know he is a great father. And I know he risks losing his children for reasons that would set a very frightening precedence. I’d rather not see that happen.

Please do not try to make this about you Avah. Because, and this may surprise you, it has nothing to do with you.

I think its important to take a step back and look at the situation here without emotional attachment.

This Jefferson fellow put his sex and personal life out there on the web. Not in an anonymous fashion but in an alias form. That alias or cover was heavily promoted on the web to a point where in essence this alias was a public figure. This public figure has also asked on quite a few occassions for donations from his adoring public.

Now because his alias is blown he and his supporters expect everyone to go quiet on the subject?

And then hey have the audacity to not only expect everyone to go quiet on the subject but then give him more money?

I’m sorry but those that are saying ” shhhhh think about the children! ”
are just like that crazy youtube guy who screamed ” LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!” when she had her meltdown.

He put himself out there he cant just pull himself back in. Well he could actually pull himself back in.

1. Pull his pleas for cash off the web.
2. Stop blogging about his life from this day forward.
3. Put his own real life house in order and stay off the friggin web.

As per Boymeats comment:

“Is Jefferson a perfect man? Hardly. Is he a close friend of mine? Nope. But I do know he is a great father. ”

Come one… did you not know you were going to be descended upon for that…

Does a great father insist in type over and over again that he does not introduce his children to his lovers, and then use them as bait to get the heart strings of people he is involved with by way of introducing them? Come on now… raise your hand if you slept with this man and eventually ended up meeting the kids in one way or another… Did they look as happy as Jefferson had always made them out to be?

Does a great father allow a constantly rotating cast of anonymous partners and sex party friends to fuck/sleep/sweat in his children’s beds sometimes changing the sheets, sometimes not.

Does a great father get drunk in front of his kids again and again.

Does a great father have one room with two beds for 3 children?

Does a great father rely on others to supply his housing, children’s clothing, and holiday gifts?

Does a great father put his family at risk by being so selfish as to trumpet his ridiculous exploits again and again on the Internet and in popular print media?

Sorry, I think not. No kool-aid for me thank you.

Thanks, Audacia, for writing this post. I can’t imagine it must have been an easy one to write, especially in the small world of sex bloggers and sex-positive folk.

When I first saw the plea from FOJ, something didn’t seem quite right and I needed a little more information before deciding to support Jefferson’s cause. I also wondered why in a case that’s been presented as so clearly about a person losing his rights due to his sexuality, why wasn’t NCSF (The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom) mentioned as a supporter or interested party in this case? Maybe there’s more to it…

For the record, I know Jefferson. I met him a little over a year ago, and shortly thereafter hung out with him a few times and had sex with him a few times, too. Jefferson is a sweet man with a big heart, and there were times when his generosity and caring were really touching and healing for me.

I am not in any sort of regular contact with him at this point, and it’s not because of a falling-out or anything - although there were times when he pissed me off and I let him know it - it’s more of a drifting apart. I hold no ill will toward him, and I can’t imagine he would toward me.

But this I know (and this goes back to the “not feeling quite right” about the plea for money): Jefferson isn’t well, and people I know who are closer to him than I am tell me his health has gotten worse. When I say “not well” I mean self-destructive, including the drinking, as well as the sex addiction. (Yeah, I know, “sex addiction” is a BAD thing to say in a sex community, but there’s a major difference between being poly or sex-positive and being a sex addict.)

But, I’m not going to join the voices calling Jefferson a bad person. He’s a good guy, but he’s sick.

And yes, the people who are trying to spin this custody battle as a threat to my 1st Amendment Rights are enabling him, and in a big way. I know about substance abuse and codependency, and this smacks of it.

I can’t say whether Jefferson or his ex are good parents because I haven’t seen them parenting, and I’ve never met his children.

I CAN say that a self-destructive, addicted parent isn’t the best parent, no matter how much he loves his children. Illness, especially mental illness, doesn’t stay compartmentalized in a parent’s “private” life.

So here’s my radical idea: Once Jefferson’s legal battles are done, how about Jefferson’s friends get together and start a fund to get the guy some treatment. He needs help, and it isn’t a booze fund.

A healthy, happy Jefferson will be a better parent, friend, boyfriend, lover and person. To me, it seems the most compassionate use of everyone’s time, money and love.

And to those “friends” who continue to insulate Jefferson from the consequences of his own actions, and who stand by while he harms himself, what are YOU getting out of this?

“It IS about being bisexual and a parent at the same time. It IS about being able to maintain a sex life and be able to talk about it on a blog and still be a parent. In many ways, this IS a sexual freedom case.”

According to who? There are plenty of bisexual, blogging parents with joint custody, and their rights are protected. How do we know this case is about anything other then his ability to act as a fit parent, without neglect? I’d say his blog makes a strong case against him, just based on the context alone, even if you blacked out the sexual content. If there was enough in their to concern the sex blogging community then you better believe there’s enough in there to concern a Mother.

[…] addition, inspired by commenter riese (h/t t Amber Rhea): when you’ve apologized, don’t do that shit no more! Keeping on with […]

If I recall, he had told his wife that he was bi and had another child from another mother. I may be wrong, but that was one of the first few posts. So, if this is true, she didn’t suddenly find out that this was his sexual orientation, but sadly, this is the case that he is making out of the situation.

I wonder what he’s telling his family about the lawsuits and the causes that brought about the lawsuit. I guess a lot of things, we will still be wondering about.

@Trixie: I know I was waaaay oversimplifying things. Nothing’s ever that black and white. But as this discussion goes on, here and elsewhere, I just see it getting more and more binary: Either Jefferson is a bisexual man in danger of losing his kids, or Jefferson is a deranged freeloader who expects people he doesn’t know to provide him with sex, booze and money on his say-so.

How ’bout this: Jefferson is a guy to whom, in the past, people have willingly given sex, money and other assistance, because they felt sorry for them or because he asked. He’s in a situation where he needs money now, so he asked again. This time, instead of private grumbling, it’s provoked public outcry, and that outcry is getting tangled up with outcry over his faults as a father. Whether they’re part of the same issue or completely separate issues, or something in-between, is up to the individual and probably colored by their previous opinions of the guy.

As for whether “it can” - or can’t - “happen to you”: Peruse random blogs, and it’s clear that Jefferson’s not the only one out there guilty of over-sharing. Those of us in this discussion have obviously given the issue a lot of thought, and have decided what we are and aren’t comfortable with putting out there. So while it’s not likely to happen to us, there are a hell of a lot of people who could use the reality check: Anything you post becomes a matter of public record, whether or not you think it can come back to bite you in the ass.

This has been a very interesting discussion. I’d like to add a few things:

1. I lived with an alcoholic. Nothing that Jefferson has done in my presence (I’ve known him for about two years) has made me think he has a problem with alcohol. Obviously I don’t spend a great deal of time with him, but of all the accusations being hurled about, this is the one that most surprised me.

2. I agree with Boymeat: I don’t think the Sexual Freedom Legal Defense and Education Fund would have agreed to take his case if the lawyers there didn’t think it was indeed about Jefferson’s sexuality. And, as I understand it, his ex-wife’s claims DO all have to do with his sex life. There’s no mention of the state of his finances or his penchant for Maker’s Mark.

3. I agree with the posters who pointed out that Jefferson wrote (and bragged) about his sex life in a public forum and that these are the consequences, but that doesn’t mean that his sex life, or the public’s knowledge of it, means he’s a bad influence on his kids. And that’s what his ex-wife is alleging.

4. And as far as his requests to keep quiet about this, as Jefferson pointed out, everything posters say now will be picked over by his ex wife’s lawyers and used against him. Yes, he dug his own grave there, but he’s doing damage control, and I’d do the same in his situation, even if asking people not to debate seemed unreasonable. He’s got a lot at stake.

5. Jefferson’s requests for money may make you uncomfortabe, but no one is being scammed into donating. Again, I can’t imagine the SFLDEF would have taken the case on if they didn’t think it had merit. Jefferson’s a poor freelancer with three kids in New York City. I have a full time job and no kids but I struggle here, too: it’s an expensive city. He has an expansive lifestyle, one that has provided me (and some of the posters here) with a lot of good times. He’s not feckless and he does work.

If you felt sympathetic to Jefferson when you first saw his post but now don’t, that doesn’t mean his case doesn’t have real legal implications. It means you shouldn’t donate.

4. I have a hard time with the notion of Jefferson manipulating some wide-eyed coterie of sex partners. Probably I have been one of his sex partners.

I donated to the fund because Jefferson’s been, and remains, a friend to me. You may have other reasons for donating (or, in many of the cases here, not donating), but I, and his other sex partners, made choices. I’ve in no way been conned into anything.

5. Anon (comment 70) said “raise your hand if you slept with this man and eventually ended up meeting the kids in one way or another… ” I’ve never met his children, and I think most of the men and women he fucked will say the same thing.

I think that’s all. Sorry it’s so looooooong.

Ah, sorry: In point #4 (um, the second #4, I got a little confused there)I meant to say “Probably because I have been one of his sex partners.” Carry on.

I write a sex blog, but I don’t wish to name myself, and I think ‘yet another request for a donation.’ I know that sounds cold, heartless even, but I am tired of people using the ‘I am a writer therefore I can’t support my kids’ excuse. I am a parent, I write, and I have never, in all my years online requested donations. Fair enough, this doesn’t make me superior or otherwise, there are others like me, who don’t expect visitors to their blogs to donate hard earned money for something we, bloggers, choose to do and that is what it is, a choice.

As far as I am aware, Jefferson is an adult male with children, meaning that his children ought to come first, so to see a person hit the skids, and ask for money via an organization, I see that as superficial. As has been mentioned above: there are many bisexual and gay parents out there, and they have rights, so there must be another issue behind his ex-wife’s reasons. I feel that there are many people that, as a result of their sexuality, are discriminated against, and I feel that organizations that request donations, ought to think about that. I for one, would never donate to any blogger’s Paypal fund. Call me mean, but I am not tightfisted in my personal life, but there are many occasions (when I see bloggers whine about their financial predicaments) when I feel like saying ‘get up off your butt and get a job rather than writing copious woe is me’ posts.

Sure, people make mistakes in life, but the ease with which certain bloggers request money, is ludicrous. Readers will never really (truly) know about their financial circumstances or predicaments, and in this current (and uncertain) economic climate, one can’t really sit there donating to every single sex blogger fund. There have been quite a few in the past year, and I don’t find any compelling reason behind their request. It’s not like they need a heart transplant or are fighting a potentially terminal illness. Most bloggers want money or donations because of some personal screw up they’ve made, some personal oversight that usually has roots in their own narcissistic view of themselves: they’re writers…oh, big deal. There are many writers out there in print who don’t have blogs requesting money/donations.

Off the top of my head, I can list a few blogs with Paypal or Amazon buttons requesting donations. Don’t these people have jobs? Social Security does exist, after all, and if they are spending more than they’re earning - relocate. Why should readers be expected to donate to fund a lifestyle. Most cities, including New York, are expensive. If people can’t afford it - RELOCATE.

I’m having a hard time trusting the judgement and financial solicitations by anyone who had sex, or observed sex, or even condoned sex between him or his “friends” on his kid’s beds.

Is there a legal fund I can donate to that will prevent this man from ever using his children’s rooms for orgies again?

i’ve been sitting here for days, reading all this. i was in jefferson’s bed and his life for close to a year. i knew a good deal of the things that were going on. i worried about his decisions sometimes; i worried about his drinking; sometimes i wished that he didn’t have so many partners (yeah, i wanted to be “special” in his life too, but knew that wasn’t going to happen–that’s obvious by reading his blog). sometimes, i was even concerned about the younger women he ended up bringing into his bed.

however, i also know how vindictive lucy is. yeah, she knew he was bi before they married. she chose to marry him, have a family and then kick him out because she got pissy over an issue (there is so much more there). nobody knows what went on in their marriage but them. but lucy’s nastiness is legendary. she too has a penchant for bourbon (knob creek), and their oldest son knows she smokes pot.

so you tell me……is she any more fit than jefferson in some areas? do you know the controlling behavior that she uses on her kids? do you know how mentally and emotionally fucked up she is?

this is about two things……..lucy’s need to control and therefore want her kids without the influence of their father and has the money (and now a public reason) to get that done. she knew he was bi and married him anyway. now she has his blog to feign lack of knowledge about his sexuality and use it to gain the control she wants.

does jefferson have issues that he needs help with? yes, yes, YES. is this the time for a public flaying of him because it’s interesting conversation, a way to get back at him for one’s own disappointment or fury because they didn’t get what they wanted from him?? no, no NO!

jefferson has asked that this all wait until the court case is over. is that too much to ask? gripe, bitch about, flay him after. let the court case go first. since most commentors here seem to believe they are in some way superior to jefferson, then shouldn’t you, as better people, be able to leave it be until the case is settled? then flay away.

as for the donating, there are many other people out there that do the same thing. donate or not. that’s your business. but sheesh, can’t you leave the guy alone until this is done?

i agree, there are severe problems that jefferson needs to take a good hard look at and change. but beating him up now isn’t going to help. it may salve our own conscienses, but that’s about it.

and for the record there were many other people in jefferson’s world that asked for things on line at some point (because they knew it worked). avah, meg, madeline are just a few that i recall seeing donation buttons on their blogs at some point. one should refrain from pointing fingers when they are not above the same behavior.

last thing: do any of us know what runs through jefferson’s mind when he’s alone? do any of us know that he hasn’t thought and worried about these things many times (his excesses in liquour, sex, lack of regular income) and couldn’t in his state find a way out, was too proud to ask, or just ignored because it seemed too difficult? and how many times did any of us that slept with him really sit and talk to him about those things and OFFER HELP (not out of our own desire for our wanting something else from him, but in a selfless “you really need help and i worry” way).

personally, i’m worried about jefferson now more than ever. he needs help, hope and friends to be honest, help him get help and move on. right now the least we can all do is what he asks and leave this until after the court case is done.

i tried to keep silent as he wished, but could not do so any longer. and instead of a knee-jerk reaction to my soap box comment, please think about what is best for all concerned right now (meaning jefferson and his kids and the case, not the blogosphere’s need to chatter about it).

My bet is that when Jefferson requested people not to write about his case online he never expected the backlash that he has received thus far.

In fact at this point I am not sure *what* he meant? Not to talk about parenting as a bi-sexual? Orgies he’s had? Other non-vanilla sex? Multiple partners? The use of his home for sex?

I think that he was counting on support though.

Clearly it was a mistake to ask bloggers & other online types not to write online. Wrong crowd. Understandably so. Most of his connections were made or furthered through the internet in some form. Much at his initiation.

I don’t think that he ever anticipated the loss of allies.

Maybe asking for $20,000 put people over the top? I agree w/ the PP that other blogs have donation buttons too. Why? I guess the solicitations must work. For the record, why would Madeline Glass as a grown woman need donations from the general public? For what? Many of us could use some extra cash too.

@phebe, I haven’t read anywhere that someone thinks the kids should live w/ Lucy exclusively or even spend more time w/ her than they do now. From what I have seen, most have pointed out that they believe that Jefferson *should not* lose custody of his kids.

I have read lots of paragraphs questioning whether his is truly a 1st amendment issue or a sexuality in parenting issue. I might have missed something somewhere though.

Nor have I seen too much on Lucy’s fitness as a parent. I am surprised that no one has questioned why they got divorced in the 1st place. That (real) answer would certainly shed much light on what’s going on today. Just my opinion of course.

The paradox of Jefferson’s appeal is that instead of getting people to keep mum about his blog or whatever he wanted to silence, his solicitation has actually opened up discussion amongst many about alternative lifestyle parenting, custody, public writings, and the current court system.

There is a major difference between having a discreet button on a sidebar and outright asking for 20k. And then still a difference asking for 20k after you’ve already asked for funds to move and Christmas presents for your children. All within a year.

@ sapphire: i wasn’t so much commenting on the asking for the money for his defense or that most people believe that he shouln’t lose custody. (and for the record, i don’t believe he should either.) or whether it is a first amendment right. the conversation has gone far afield of those issues.

my concern was for jefferson and his request at this point, that every comment (and here i am adding to it, sorry) written adds another tidbit that can be used by his ex. while the community at large here doesn’t believe jefferson should lose custody, that’s what his ex wants. and i worry that the total lack of support will make it more difficult for him to deal with the stress. that was my point all along: that he’s got enough to deal with, without worrying about the on-going conversation. however, you do have a point: asking a group of people who write, not to do so is a bit of a sticky wicket.

@avah: a discreet button on a sidebar, asking for money to help purchase a bed that you broke (not jefferson, but another blogger), funds to move, etc. it’s all a degree of the same thing. and i believe to make a distinction is a way to salve one’s conscience about something that rings true. it’s all solicitation from mostly strangers to give one things because they blog and people enjoy the reading. any blog request for funds, no matter who is was has always bothered me. it seemed cheap and a little sleezy to me. and i kept my mouth shut. what people do on their blogs, what they feel is okay–their business. as for the plea for legal funds, well, lots of people do that too. i’m more apt to help with that than send a bottle of bourbon, money for a bed or what have you.

it’s just my opinion, but one i felt i needed to air.

i don’t even know why i’m bothering, but somehow, the one long(er) comment here that i actually read all the way through to the end mentioned me. so, i would just like to say that i’ve never put up a button for donations of ANY kind on my blog.

while i’m hopeful that it was just an innocent mistake, please don’t throw other people’s names around in your comments unless you are sure what you’re saying is absolutely true.

my apologies meg. it was an innocent mistake. and you are correct. my ire at this whole thing got in the way.

To the person talking about Jefferson’s ex wife, do you know her personally or do you just know what he’s told you? Just curious.

So, Monday the 11th has come and gone. Was the goal met?

@Curious, what an excellent question!

I am shattered.

Over this.

And over every one of you.

None of this is okay. Can’t we keep silent? I watch comment after comment. Can’t we all keep silent? Regardless of how I feel about anyone–Jefferson, you, the lot of you– can’t we keep this to ourselves? What is speaking out going to do? What is ANYTHING going to do? In the scheme of life, WE are nothing, THIS is nothing. Why do anything at all? Speaking out might ruin a man’s life. I am going to refrain from describing this man– he may be ruthless, he may be despicable– or he may be gentle. Kind. I don’t know anymore, and perhaps I never did. However– no one should have to feel added pain due to the virtual comments of others. Can’t we keep silent?

Ditto Curious! What’s the news?

@ Cody, can speaking out really ruin a man’s life? What is your speaking out doing? Why are you bothering at all? Ask yourself the questions before posing them to us. Once you’ve commented, you’re one of us. Those who live in glass houses….

@ Cody, I don’t believe anyone is speaking out to demonize this person, they’re doing it out of responsibility, if not just a reaction to what he has already chosen to put out.

Unless you were just intentionally quoting Fiona Apple’s Grammy Speech for comic relief, in which case I agree, this world is shit. We are nothing, this nothing.

To balance out the many people who don’t like donation opportunities being presented EVER, I don’t have a problem with asking for help in the form of money, even 20k, I have a problem with the way this particular call for help was presented. Seriously, if it had been worded, “I’m in a fucked up situation — need help if anyone can — lawyer bills just for this this month are going to be around 20k” blah blah blah I wouldn’t have felt I was being manipulated in the way I described earlier.

It freaks me out how many people think it’s wrong and grabby to give people the opportunity to gift them or help them in general, especially when bloggers provide so much for FREE. It chaps my hide when people criticize them simply for giving folks an opportunity to tip them with a small (or large) donation or presents from a wishlist. Believe it or not, many people LIKE to thank bloggers and entertainers by paying them something for their work.

Scary, scary, SCARY.

Is he on Viagra? Does he ever refuse a potential sex partner? Are his walls sound proofed, and weren’t there incidents with neighbors? Were some of those stories really fiction? Did his apartment reek of sex & ass? Can’t he find a sugar daddy on CL? Why weren’t his partners ever concerned about catching something? I’m fascinated.

Also, what was so charming about him? His blog makes him sound like a bitchy queen who must smirk a lot.

I’m sure I’m not the only one curious about this stuff.

“Did his apartment reek of sex & ass?”

What a gross question. Just because someone has a lot of sex doesn’t mean they’re unhygienic or in need of Kim and Aggie.

It has nothing to do with hygiene and everything to do with the reality of having that many sweaty naked people fucking in the confines of a New York apartment. Not a sex club, but a private home. What’s the line of grossness for chronic over-sharers? We have more right to question health and hygiene issues that effected all of his friends instead of the deeply personal subject matter of his struggles with alcohol.

I’ve been to Jefferson’s (old) apartment.

It did not “reek of sex & ass”.

In fact, it looked and smelled a lot like any other lived-in apartment I’ve ever been in.

Since you were wondering.

[…] Others in his circle have not been so kind; old friend (of his) Dacia Ray’s come out with a critique of this always asking for something and using bad judgement fella; a recent lover’s posted a […]

I’m pretty sure he stated if he didn’t have 20K but last monday the 11th, he would loose custody. He waits a week to update on his desperate cry, then pops up again assuring us a court gaurdian was secured for his children with the funds raised, and suggests we should CONTINUE to donate to his cause…

Sorry, but this might as well be an email from a supposed exiled prince from an African Country. Seriously, how are those scams and different thing this?

And then this “Save the Date” what will this be? A meet an greet, a fundraiser? How will he protect his identity… will it be like where’s Waldo? Is fund collector Vivian hard at work spending her own money to hire “Jefferson” look alikes to fill the room so no one is sure exactly who he is? And who exactly do they think will show up for whatever they have brewing on 8/27?

Comment one at this link seems to know what she’s talking about, and lookie-lookie:

“the Law Guardian is paid for BY THE STATE, not the parents. If they are telling him otherwise, then someone is being scammed.”

I’ll say.
——————————————-

Phil, I want to point out a couple of things here:

Again, I’m sorry anyone has to go through this, it is an extremely trying experience, but the best thing to have is someone who knows the ins and outs of the NY Family Court and Legal System (Superior Court) from a parent’s perspective (not a lawyers) on their side to ask questions and get support. I didn’t have that, but I wish I had. Shana and I had to do all kinds of research and work, and practically represent ourselves, where someone with the knowledge we came across would have been invaluable and saved us a lot of time and energy. If you know him, and want to pass on Shana’s contact info (she’s more likely to get email, not having to sift through hundreds of emails a day), go ahead.

Comment two on that thread is pretty interesting too:

From: [info]viviane212 Date: August 5th, 2008 02:54 pm (UTC)

Thank you for the comment - I’ve passed it on to Jefferson.

I guess Jefferson didn’t have time to tell us the good news about free legal representation and the court paying for a guardian. He only found out about on August 5th, after all. Priorities, people! Won’t you think of the children?

Funny. I didn’t think of Jefferson’s Save the Date as save the date for an actual event. I thought that it would be the date that the court was scheduled to make the decision. Fundraiser? Hadn’t thought of that…hmmm…

If New York’s threshold for “indigent” is anything like it is where I live, then it’s entirely possible that Jefferson doesn’t qualify for free representation. To qualify here, you need to be down to almost no money in savings or property — which isn’t terribly conducive to demonstrating that you can shelter, feed and clothe your kids.

2) IN New York, Parents are entitled to legal defense for free in family court and custody battles if they need it and are indigent (cannot afford a lawyer themselves, or run out of funds for a lawyer).

Jefferson begged for funds to get his kids Christmas presents. He begged for funds again when he was evicted.

Maybe he isn’t indigent. OK. If he isn’t how come he had to beg for money to pay for christmas presents for his kids.

If he was indigent why is he now begging for money for lawyers.

Why did he claim he needed money to pay for a court appointed guardian?

Why didn’t he post and explain exactly where the money is needed and where it will go.

Lies.

Priorities! WHEEEEEE! Save the date! Party on August 27! Send me money!

Please. This is about children.

@annoyed — I guess what you’re saying is either he’s indigent (asking for presents, money to move) or he isn’t (can really afford legal assistance) & which is it?

I am still not sure that “Save the Date” is about a party.

I will say that the guardian ad litem should either be paid for by the court or BOTH parties b/c if only one parent pays for him/her then the impartiality toward the situation looks compromised.

Maybe it is a special child expert or something?

Ok. My mistake. I didn’t see Jefferson’s latest blog entry re the event.

If he’s indigent that explains why he needed help to buy the kid’s Xmas presents and needed financial help when he was evicted.
It doesn’t explain why he needs help for a lawyer because the indigent get free legal representation.

If he’s not indigent that explains why he needs money to pay for a lawyer but doesn’t explain why he needed money from strangers to buy his kid’s Xmas presents.

So which is it.

The court pays for the guardian so what’s going on there.

A spanking party for $ doesn’t seem like the best way to prove he’s a responsible parent whose financially stable. IMHO.

lots of people might need help for an unexpected expense or emergency.
I have trouble understanding how he could be too rich to qualify for free legal aid but too poor to buy his kid’s xmas presents. That doesn’t make sense.

Annoyed et al - I don’t believe it was ever stated that he was unable to get free representation. Perhaps, he wanted to pick a specific lawyer.

I guess if we believe this is a case of sexual freedom and 1st amendment violations we should want to help. If, however, you find him to be an irresponsible, misogynistic fuck up, well then not so much.

Sapphire Graham, it’s a party alright.

@ annoyed “A spanking party for $ doesn’t seem like the best way to prove he’s a responsible parent whose financially stable. IMHO.”

I’m laughing. You are SO right! To post on your BLOG, the one that you are getting in trouble for having (rightly or wrongly…) that you are having a spanking party does fly in the face of good sense.

If the issue surrounding your children’s custody is your alternative / nonvanilla sexuality then aren’t you just fanning the flames? The matter is still before the court w/ a judge in control of the outcome. Even if YOU feel that it is unjust that you can’t have a sex/parenting blog combo and still be considered to be a good parent, the judge’s decision is going to impact your life for a long time.

If you are trying to prove your parenting fitness maybe a spanking party isn’t the way to go?

Wow…this thread of comments is fascinating. All I know about Jefferson is that every time Google Reader recommends a sex blog, there’s about an 85% chance it’s written by a woman that’s fucking him. That said, this guy seems to have some serious Jedi mind tricks. I mean, here are a bunch of intelligent, thoughtful people here saying, “Hey, just because he’s an unemployed alcoholic that hosts bukkake parties and mooches things from insecure women he meets on the internet in exchange for sex doesn’t mean he’s a bad father.”

Well, you know what? Color me hopelessly square, but yes, yes it does.

- I don’t believe it was ever stated that he was unable to get free representation. Perhaps, he wanted to pick a specific lawyer.

I’d like to buy a specific pair of shoes. If I blogged that I need money for shoes or else I lose my kids it would be a little misleading.
If he wanted to pick a specific lawyer fine. That isn’t how he made it seem.

To post on your BLOG, the one that you are getting in trouble for having (rightly or wrongly…) that you are having a spanking party does fly in the face of good sense.

Someone said he was more comitted to being the internet sex machine then being a parent. This decisision shows he’s lacking in good sense & makes me think that maybe he is an addict. This is not smart behavior for someone in his poisition.

Well, you know what? Color me hopelessly square, but yes, yes it does.

Ha, ha, ha!

It’s funny how the introduction’s all reworded, if no one has noticed.

The introduction to what?

Regardless of wanting to rally behind this man, or rally against him, I am shocked by something I came across tonight. If we can all agree on one thing revolving around this situation, its no joke. There is nothing funny, or cute about what is happening to this man, to his family. Regardless of how in need he is, how he got there, or why its being asked for the way it is now.

I am shocked that THIS is the way people are branding this effort. I am offended. I am offended that an issues at which the groups is touting under the banner RIGHTS, but the face of this effort, is a group of stick figures with initial the initial “j”, or hearts as cherries on top of booies?

If there was a part of me that sided with Jefferson, and wanted to support this effort, it more or less died when I saw the below cartoon.

http://www.thesexcarnival.com/2008/08/foj-clarification/

Are you girls a team? Is there safty in numbers? are you holding hands under your sticks? This is now officially, a joke.

@slackjawed: The graphic is typical. Look at what its promoting. I can’t get over the choice of event. In these circumstances is it really a smart idea to prove he’s a financially secure and emotionally stable parent by hosting a spanking party for $.

I know that’s not really what it is but that’s what its going to look like to the court. Giving out whips and canes and offers of a free session with Lolita Wolf doesn’t spell RESPONSIBLE PARENT to ordinary people.

Would it have been so difficult to avoid doing anything that looks freaky while the case is underway? I’m not saying that alternative sexuality makes you a bad parent but his lack of judgment makes me wonder how capable he is to be a good parent. This is a stupid & dangerous idea for a fundraiser.

That graphic makes me sick too.

Maybe it should be renamed The Enablers of Jefferson.

To be fair, I think that the stick figure artist specializes in that type of graphic so she is just using her medium.

If the event is NOT a spanking party for money, please tell me what it is. I am just an average person reading the promo and that is my take on it. And the chance to win ’sessions’ with various people seems controversial. If you sell the raffle tickets are you selling the sessions too? Is this really the time to get into all that?

Why make the event sexual? Can’t you just have an ordinary fundraiser?

If this case is supposed to be about good parenting vs. lots of sex, why not focus on the parenting part and leave the sex part alone for a minute?

“Why make the event sexual? Can’t you just have an ordinary fundraiser?”

No, they can’t.

“If this case is supposed to be about good parenting vs. lots of sex, why not focus on the parenting part and leave the sex part alone for a minute?”

YES.

If Jefferson or the Enablers of Jefferson put together an event that was about the first amendement or about child custody laws and alt lifestyles, I would donate.

They didn’t do that.

They didnt organize a panel about child custody and altsex lifestyles and the legal options for all of us.

Instead its some stupid excuse for another sex party.

WHEE! save the date! spank for peace! gimme money! look how daring I am! WHEEEEEE!

They make me puke.

“Can’t you just have an ordinary fundraiser?”

ROFL!
That’s impossible for a sex addict who lives in a world where he can believe that everyone else is equally addicted.

All his enablers think this is normal behavior. So does he. They don’t understand why we think it’s awful.

I am finding it ironic that the appeal sent out by the FOJ told us all that this was a First Amendment issue we were all at risk for as bloggers when someone is trying to silence my right to free speech.

I noticed recently that my blog and posts are not showing up in google searches like they used to. A new post would be there for a day and then disappear. It all started in the past few weeks around the same time I started writing the truth about my relationship with Jefferson.

Many have commented that the women involved with Jefferson only wrote glowing posts about him. I for one was guilty of that myself. All I wanted to do now was to get my point of view out there and speak the truth the as I know it of my relationship with him.

Has anyone tried to google Jefferson or the Friends of Jefferson? Nothing is showing up which I find a little strange. I have googled my own blog many times in the past and I know what should be showing up.

I can only be left to imagine who has the most interest or motivation to silence my voice about Jefferson. I know of only person in this whole entire mess who has both the knowledge and motivation to do this.

I find it sad for this community of sex bloggers that it has come down to something like this where someones voice I being silenced.

In response to Diva… some enabler is spending an awful lot of money via google adwords to have a hold on any and all applicable search terms.

Why can’t you women let him stand alone? Do you think he has always been honest with you? Are you sure? Why is this YOUR cause? Do you know what he said about you when you weren’t around?

Maybe someone else does. Stop standing behind cries of first amendment rights, pack up the stick figures and call it a day. Unless you tell me “Jefferson is offline today” Because he packed up and went into treatment, I don’t want to hear it.

Listen to me FOJ’s:
I understand you think you are helping him, but I NEED you to understand you are doing the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of that.

Stop, just stop. He’s a good man, he’s a kind man, he needs help, but he needs to find it himself. You cannot protect him because by doing so YOU ARE KILLING HIM.

This is my plea Friends of Jefferson; Please. End this now.

Law Guardians are provided free in Family Court, for some people who financially qualify.

Jefferson’s case is in Supreme Court where no one at all gets free anything. Not a free lawyer, not a free Law Guardian. The judge orders you to hire one, and you do. Period. The Law Guardian generally runs $8-12,000 and is split between the parents. He or she is the children’s lawyer and reports directly to the court about the children, what their experience is, and how they feel about whatever the issue is.

Whatever you think about the issues here, or the ways of publicizing them, misinformation doesn’t help anyone.

@ informed reader

“The Law Guardian generally runs $8-12,000 and is split between the parents.”

– Is split between the parents –

If what you’re saying is true then the Guardian Ad Litem bill would be about 5K for Jefferson (1/2 of 10K - the midpoint of your figures) which is not 20 plus thousand dollars.

My guess is that if 5K had been asked for originally then this whole contentious situation might never have occurred. Not to this extent anyway.

It is very difficult to believe that there is NO provision for defendant fees & guardian ad litem fees in NY Supreme Court.

Presumably Jefferson is a defendant if this case is not in family court but in Supreme Court before a judge. Does not make sense at all. He is defending himself? Not bringing the action right?

He might not have the particular legal representation that he wants but that’s life unfortunately.

Introduction, as in introduction to ‘his’ blog. Like I have said before, if we’re donating, may we see the financial records please? Also, on the stickfigure page, the comments are closed. Where is my freedom of speech?

@Diva: For what it’s worth, I know more than a little about the inner workings of Google and AdSense. This is not the only organization calling itself “Friends of Jefferson”. When you put in a relatively ambiguous search term like that, the Google results are going to favor sites which have longer histories and click-throughs from previous searches. So if you just search for the organization name, the first — in this case — 10 pages are so are going to be for pages that Google thinks are more likely to be what you’re looking for. (This is using quotes around “Friends of Jefferson” so Google treats it as a string.) Notice the lack of AdSense ads on the right? That means Google doesn’t have a clue what result you’re after. However, if you add an additional term like “blog,” you’ll see relevant-to-you results much sooner.

I’d need more information about what kind of search you’re running and what exactly you’re looking for to posit what’s going on with your blog. The Google Help page can assist you in posting a question on their help boards or mailing the team directly.

As to the logic of holding a spanking party at this point: The cat’s already out of the bag. He seems to get most of his support from that particular community, so it makes sense he’d want a fund-raiser to pull those people in. I’m sure he ran it by his legal team: Notice how nowhere on the flyer does it say that he is behind the event - just that a group calling itself Friends of Jefferson will donate the proceeds to his legal fund. Pretty damning in the real world, but probably easy to bat down in court. And, as I think is the point of his side, it’s not against the law. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea, and it may be a stupid thing to do in this situation, but it’s legal.

Oh, dear. Wait a minute. Does a stab at objectivity coupled with the fact that I once met the guy make me an “enabler”? For the record, I haven’t donated to the fund, nor do I have any plans to - but I won’t condemn those who have or do.

Without commenting on the particular case (as I don’t know the people involved), I’m also a bit suspicious of the comment that this could set a precedent towards sex bloggers, bisexual parents, or BDSM-ers who are parents. In California, at least, Family Law matters almost never create precedents; Family Law courts just aren’t that kind of court.

Unless this is being heard by an appeals court, and that particular issue is being tried (rather than his general fitness), I would approach the claim that this is a precedent-setting matter with some caution.

I’ve read his blog, I’ve meet lots of people who know him and many have in some way been hurt by him. Even the ones who haven’t never really seem to be impressed by him.

To me he seems like a monster and a pathetic one at that. Every one of his words and actions seem devoid of emotion. He seems like a lying drunk who is trying to fuck the world. For what exactly? He seems like a classic sex addict. I have heard more than one story of him really hurting people, physically and emotionally. Donations are not what he needs. He needs to get a job and get a life outside fucking and drinking.

It’s going to get worse. As all of his playthings run away he is going to be like an animal backed into a corner. He will flail wildly and cry for the toys that have been taken away.

A side note, there seems to be some confusion about the first amendment. The freedom of speech protects us from the government stopping us from voicing our opinion. People with webpages can have as much or as little discussion as they want.

Since every woman here seems to be saying it… I have not fucked Jefferson, nor do I read him .. or know him. I am just here to tell Dacia I applaud you for your post. Sylvanus and myself were just discussing last night how not a lot of people are willing to go towards the negative. You have written a very good post that states your views, though they may go against Jefferson, in a very adult way. I truly applaud you. I have seen the FOJ plea go up on other bloggers I read and have chosen not to donate. Had I decided to and read his very first comment that he left here.. I would have been absolutely upset that I had.

The original plea said this: “As of today, there is an urgent and immediate need for at least $20,000 to cover costs associated with attorney fees and those of the law guardian who has been appointed to represent the children.

If he is unable to pay these fees by August 11,
he will be forced to relinquish custody of his children.”

I’ve left comments asking the FoJ how much money has been raised so far, and whether the August 11 deadline was met, and where Jefferson stands now in this case (did he get to keep his kids?). They delete my comments and give me no response. Then they close comments altogether so I can’t ask again.

What, I ask, the fuck? What would be the harm in answering?

If there’s a nonprofit adminestering these funds, shouldn’t it be a matter of public record?

I think part of the controversy is because of the lack of transparency about the funds. You can’t issue a blanket demand for a huge sum like that and not tell people exactly what it is for and where it is going.

Combine that with the facts coming out about his work history and tendency to exploit women for money and people are going to be even more suspicious.

I can understand that maybe he needs to keep certain information private, but it’s hard to understand why there wasn’t a clearer explanation of the legal and financial situation. Shouldn’t there be some updates about the case’s progress? People who donated have a right to know and the FOJ can’t expect to get new donors if we don’t know where or how that money is being used.

@twodogzz: those are all very good questions, and even giving people the benefit of the doubt, it is hard to understand why we’re not getting the answers to them. Deleting your comments and closing comments down is laughable.

I’ve been staying away from the comments, but since it’s been nearly three weeks since I blogged this and the comments are still going strong, I thought I’d step back in.

There’s been a lot of bold stuff written here - or as I put it in a Twitter message earlier today, “lively, interesting, and occasionally vicious.”

Though I was on the initial round of emails about the FOJ plans, I obviously don’t have access to that info any more (see: this post and the 130 comments it has inspired). I don’t know if the fund raising goal has been met (though I don’t think its likely) or what the progress in the case has been over the past few weeks. And obviously none of that is being reported publicly and the fund raising continues, culminating in this weird ass party coming up on Wednesday.

I think that its very excellent that the community has been asking so many tough questions - and though its beyond frustrating that there are no answers, the conversation is sorely needed. Community is important, but silently accepting funny business hurts the community at large and leaves people who have been hurt feeling abandoned and disrespected.

I have approved every comment that’s been written and haven’t taken any down or edited any - I know no one is accusing me of that, but just wanted to reiterate it. This comment thread will remain open infinitely, since it seems to be the only open and unedited forum happening on this topic.

Here are some other posts on the topic that are well worth reading:
Rachel Kramer Bussel - “Let’s Recap - The First Amendment” - http://rkb.tumblr.com/post/44828239/lets-recap-the-first-amendment

Urban Gypsy - “One Plea, Take Two” - http://nyc-urban-gypsy.blogspot.com/2008/08/one-plea-take-two.html

Debauched Domestic Diva - “Breaking My Silence” - http://debaucheddomesticdiva.blogspot.com/2008/08/breaking-my-silence.html

Rachel Kramer Bussel - “Jefferson’s Custody Case and the First Amendment Red Herring” - http://lustylady.blogspot.com/2008/08/jeffersons-custody-case-and-first.html

Sex in the Public Square - “Writing Sex and Parenting - Dangerous But Essential” - http://sexinthepublicsquare.org/ElizabethsBlog/writing-sex-and-parenting

This Thing Called BDSM - “The Jefferson Escapade” - http://thisthingcalledbdsm.blogspot.com/2008/08/jeffersonian-escapade.html

Here’s one that most have missed. I can’t vouch for its accuracy, but the guy’s got excellent credentials:

http://uncivilsociety.org/2008/08/bisexual-fundaising-and-earmar.html

Can’t say I’m terribly impressed with SFLDEF for a number of reasons, this among them.

I read the Time Out article again “I am a Family Guy/ Orgy Enthusiast and wow, times have changed for Jefferson. He sounds on top of the world there.

He sounds like a sex addict there if you ask me.

Dear Upset,
As you can imagine I find this very confusing and upsetting. It sounds as though you may be able to cast some light on this situation. Would you mind contacting me directly at

debaucheddomesticdiva AT gmail[dot] com

Rock on Dacia!

When I initially saw the way the fundraiser was being carried out, I was slightly taken aback. I thought, “This is really going to piss people off.” There are a lot of people who have donated money, and they want to be updated on the situation. There are a lot of people writing entries, talking about the changes this man needs to make in his life to prove he’s a fit parent, and then he once again does something you deem unfit.

But wait, I thought, is this really an usual event considering who we are talking about? If you want people to come to a fundraiser, then you need something to lure them there, and you need to give them a reason to donate money to your cause. The invite is circulating around the blogging world and is meant for sex bloggers and people who read sex blogs mainly. Gee, how would you get a bunch of these kinky people all in one place for a cause? I know, why not have a spanking party and offer some sexy prizes!

Is it in bad taste considering what’s going on? Maybe, but if this was to raise money for Jefferson to have surgery or something, then everybody would probably think it sounded really fun. It seems to me that this fundraiser was designed to appeal to the sex-positive community, and it possibly backfired only because people think he needs to alter his way of life.

I also wanted to point out, that people can speculate all they want about court proceedings and costs, but none of you have actually talked with Jefferson or his ex in detail about what is going on I’m sure. None of you have seen any legal documents pertaining to this case. None of you know who their lawyers are or what exactly they were told to pay. I think their are a lot of non-bloggers like me who are avid sex blog readers that have been following this thread, and I don’t know about them, but it’s been pretty funny to watch all of you act like you know everything about the legal system and this particular situation.

Thank you “just a thought” for your words of clarity. It’s amazed me how many bloggers have been able to speak with such certainty about what this case is really about, and the legalities surrounding the case. You all seem to know so much, which is amazing because none of you have actually seen the details of the lawsuit, know the wording of the case, or any of the official court documents or proceedings.

But you all KNOW. And you type away on your blogs swearing you are typing the truth, the facts, yet that is the farthest from the truth.

There is even one blogger out there who is questioning whether or not the donations made to the SFLDEF is really tax deductable. Are you serious?

I mean, really?

Do you all really think the NCSF, an organization that has proved its worth time and time again over the years and is known for being above reproach and doing things by the letter, would have gotten involved if they hadn’t seen the court documents and saw them worthy?

Do you really think the SFLDEF would get involved unless it knew this case is about sexuality? Do you really think they would have stuck their neck out for a case about an “alcoholic father”? Or one who did nothing to care for his kids, financially?

Do you really think people like Lolita would put their reputations on the line for a case that wasn’t about sexual freedoms? Do you really think people involved with the FOJ have not seen the court documents and know what they are talking about?

Really?

And you do really think the FOJ would be deliberately holding back details on the case so as to con you all? Is it really that hard to theorize that the lawyers have instructed people involved not to discuss the details of the case while it is still active? Really??!!

This isn’t fair discussion Audacia - this is a witch trial. This is a group of bloggers typing away about things they don’t know about. This is a mob scene. This is people inventing facts to help inspire more ire and fuel their flames higher and higher.

You call the FOJ dishonest, that they’re conducting funny business, implying that they are trying to take your money and run. I call all of you cowards. You all hide behind your anonymous name tags just so you can spout harsher and harsher vitriol. And all you are doing is making yourself look ugly and ignorant, at best.

Dear Boymeat -

You address all points, with the exception of pretty valid idea that the FOJ’s are doing nothing but enabling this man, as in some cases many of them have done for years. Groceries, Trips, Clothinging for the Children, rent money, the list goes on and on…

How is this any different, how will he ever learn he has to take RESPONSIBILITY FOR HIMSELF?

That’s my biggest issue with this. I don’t pretend to know the inner workings of anyone’s legal issues. I merely want to point out that while on your soap box, you left out a very important point.

@ an anon “And, as I think is the point of his side, it’s [the spanking party] not against the law. It may not be everyone’s cup of tea, and it may be a stupid thing to do in this situation, but it’s legal.”

I don’t think that anyone has said that a spanking party is illegal. Just really poor taste for the situation.

@ just a thought “Is it in bad taste considering what’s going on? Maybe, but if this was to raise money for Jefferson to have surgery or something, then everybody would probably think it sounded really fun.”

True if it were for something else. The analogy here is closer to having a all you-can-drink cocktail fundraiser for someone going to alcohol rehab. Or a pot party to raise funds for a drug case.

@boymeat The post at http://uncivilsociety.org/2008/08/bisexual-fundaising-and-earmar.html (Thank you anonymous 3)is very well written.

Please click the links to the author’s supporting documents. One of them is about how the United Way of CA was threatened with losing their tax exempt status for helping a specific group of firefighters’ families. This shows that even respected organizations can make mistakes with their interpretation of the IRS code (at least according to the IRS)

The author of this post backs up what his is saying with various legal writing from respected sources. He also states very clearly that he doesn’t have an opinion on this particular situation. And I will posit that he probably doesn’t care. He is looking at it financially from the tax exempt donation angle and he found the claims made for Jefferson’s fund wanting.

Finally, I don’t think that anyone has claimed to see the actual case documents. They are just surmising from what they know of the situation oftentimes from their own experience with Jefferson.

Maybe people just have a real problem with being asked to donate up to 20 thousand dollars to someone but not be told where their money is going except vaguely to someone who in trouble because they are a bisexual.

@Sapphire Graham: I do agree that considering what is going on, the spanking party is possibly in bad taste, but I can also see it as a way of him saying, “Hey, I’m not going to change my sex habits just because my ex and others don’t like them.” Some people think it’s a great idea and some don’t. In a situation like this, there is never going to be a perfect resolution.

@Boymeat: I agree that too many people have offered up opinions and used their past relationship with Jefferson to justify their thoughts on the matter. I don’t think half the people here know more than me about what’s going on because most people are getting their information from different blogs or gossip. I also highly doubt Jefferson is sharing any information with people who have been blogging or writing unkind comments about him.

I don’t see anyone claiming they “know” anything about the legal situation. I see a lot of people ASKING for information and not getting it. So they research the issues to try to figure things out, and they hypothesize. You want to stop speculation? Then answer some questions! How would it hurt Jefferson’s case to know how much money has been raised, whether or not donations or tax-deductible, and so on and so on? We’re just asking questions about information that HE made public to begin with! He said, oh sorry, I mean “the friends of Jefferson” said that he needed $20,000 by August 11. Fine! Did he get it or not?

And then there’s this. http://uncivilsociety.org/2008/08/bisexual-fundaising-and-earmar.html I found this post VERY informative — thank you anon! From what I can tell, the SFLDEF is one woman lawyer who doesn’t spell very good. Interesting that the site appears to be down right now. Are we supposed to consider her an expert just because she says she is? Oh well!

Anything you want to add, Boymeat? Is that your real name, by the way? Reallly????

@twodogzz “I found this post VERY informative — thank you anon! From what I can tell, the SFLDEF is one woman lawyer who doesn’t spell very good.”

That would be “…who doesn’t spell very well.”

@ twodogzz
“I don’t see anyone claiming they “know” anything about the legal situation. I see a lot of people ASKING for information and not getting it.”

I agree entirely with you! I know that you have been asking this in various forums and that you have not been given an answer. (Shillyshally too if this person is here.)

What happened on August 11th?

The particular CLAIMS made in Jefferson’s case and the legal wrangling can be kept secret if need be. It’s off putting though to hear “it’s becasue he is bisexual” but “shhh” we can’t talk anymore than that.

What could be answered though is HOW is the fundraising coming along and HOW the funds are being used.
When asking for money one should realize that these types of questions will be justifiably asked.

When the plea was first made, the statement was that if Jefferson didn’t receive 20K by a certain date he would have to give up custody of his children. A follow up would be appreciated by those who were asked (which is EVERYONE with internet access.) Might even encourage contributions!

When Jefferson asked for money in the past, he laid out what it was needed for in detail. The security depost on the apartment, the first months rent, etc. This may have made people feel closer to the situation and want to contribute. Unfortunatley, this request was for more money and with far less information provided.

Back to you @boymeat “There is even one blogger out there who is questioning whether or not the donations made to the SFLDEF is really tax deductable. Are you serious?”

Yeah. I think that blogger is serious. Click the link ‘blogger’ in the post that leads to his resume. He is a law professor along with having worked at a large law firm and a bunch of other things. My opinion is that he might know what he is talking about regarding the tax deduction problem. And as I mentioned previously, he cites legitimate sources for his writing.

And @boymeat “You all hide behind your anonymous name tags”

That blogger writes under his own name. Do you? (first name) Boy (last name) Meat?

Just to confirm, since the question was raised: I’m serious. I teach nonprofit organizations law & use real-world scenarios such as this in my class. Nonprofit law is in many ways arcane and counter-intuitive, and it’s easy for even the most well-intentioned organizations to get tripped up in its complexity.

Earmarked donations issue are particularly problematic, because activity that might in itself be consistent with a charitable purpose can be seen as private benefit if donations are solicited for specific individuals. One recent charitable disaster-relief effort literally required an act of Congress to avoid tax trouble; similar issues were raised regarding donations for victims’ families after 9/11.

Of course, no one should rely on just my word. The first couple links in my post linked above contain more extensive explanations, with cites, of the relevant law.

This is a great fight. I wonder how those kids are. I know, Jefferson should have thought about that, right? Yeah, that’ll make them feel better.

So wait… They are having a sex party fundraiser because thats the “lure” as someone said? The lure to bring peoople to support jefferson?

Call me crazy but fundraisers in my neck of woods are typically like a beef and beer at a local firehouse. Eat and drink for a good cause. To host a sex party fundraiser for someone accused of being more or less a sexual deviant is like hosting a fundraiser at a bar for someone who is an alcoholic.. wait…. nevermind…..

@Let’s Party- I said the idea struck me that the FOJ might have thought this type of fundraiser would get more people to come since the invite is circulating around the sex blog world. You seem to forget who the intended audience is.

@Wendy: LOL!!

@everyone else: …carry on…

From the SFLDEF site:

While he was successful in having his joint custody reinstated, the case continues and in order to continue to defend the action, he desperately needs funds for his own legal counsel, to defray his portion of the fees to pay the court appointed attorney for the children, the cost of a forensic psychiatrist and possibly other experts to testify if a full hearing is ordered by the judge.

According to this he’s had joint custody reinstated. This says he ‘desperately needs funds” IF a full hearing is ordered.

I guess he’s raising all these funds just in case. Do we get them back if he doesn’t need them? Like if there ISN’T a full hearing? Somehow I don’t think so.

But remember, it’s about children! Being a freeloading alcoholic who has chosen not to work for the last 4 years has NOTHING to do with it.
This saga gets scummier every day.

The fact that joint custody was reinstated can mean a lot of things, I’m trying my best to respect the wish not to speculate, but it doesn’t mean the ultimate issue of whether to modify custody has been decided yet.

Also, I read the statement as saying he “desperately needs funds” to continue to defend the *ongoing* case and pay the fees already incurred (court appointed attorney) or soon to be (forensic psychiatrist).

AND he will possibly need funds for other experts IF a full hearing is ordered.

Maybe not the best constructed sentence ever, but it’s amazing how people can see what they want to see.

Ah, I wrote that too quickly! “Forensic psychiatrist” probably goes with “other experts,” but that all is really beside the point. My point is there are fees already incurred and, since SFLDEF says the case continues, there will be more costs.

Whether you want to donate or not, like the guy… whatever. It just seemed misleading to me to twist the SFLDEF’s statement so that it looks like they are trying to scam you out of your money for nonexistant costs. Seriously?

Just my opinion but the “he was successful in having his joint custody reinstated” should have been posted on Jefferson’s blog.

It concerns me that readers here such as “just Another Thought” have to click around the web to find this type of information.

Why not celebrate what appears to be a good thing? Even if as “Counter Thought” states the resolution might not be permanent, if the SFLDEF can write about it on their site then it’s most likely not confidential information.

The excepts (of letters, from e-mails, or what?) that are posted on Jefferson’s blog from supporters have no links or reference point. It only says that so and so recently wrote blah blah blah. When? Where? To whom? Jefferson? I am not saying that these statements weren’t written only that they appear piecemeal.

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Thanks for your post, Audacia. I had been wondering about many of the points that you’ve covered for a while, but I never gave my opinion (or any money) because I only know Jefferson from what I’ve read on the blogosphere. Just reading about it never seemed like a substitute for knowing someone in real life before giving an opinion (even though I’m putting my two cents in now, naturally). I’m glad to see some “dissenting” information.

I discovered Jefferson’s blog when the act of sex was still fairly new to me (I was 21: late bloomer), and I read all of it (including the archives) in a matter of days. I wanted to start a blog too if that’s what it brought you. I was intrigued by the thought that never-ending sex could be possible, and men who have scads of sex partners (”bad boys”, “man-whores”, “Dolmance”, “Brian Kinney”) have always had a fascination for me. The idea of fucking a lot of people, period, has always seemed like a worthwhile goal, if only for the amount of respect and envy such people seem to inspire. And it looks like a vison of bliss to someone who hasn’t had many orgasms during sex.

As a writer myself, who’s always been fascinated by contrasting the history behind authors like Anias Nin with what they wrote, I know how anything anyone writes about themselves should usually be taken with a grain of salt. Though I never met Jefferson, I often fantasized about the idea because getting to know “the real person” is in itself highly titillating. Would it be horrible? Would it be amazing? Perhaps I would be in a dangerous situation! All part of the fun.

Yes, I often thought it odd that he seemed so unconcerned about anonymity. The parts about his kids never bothered me, and now that I’ve read these comments I wonder why. Because I still think of his blog as a fantasized retelling? You can build yourself up to have any persona online (I do it myself) and I often admired how Jefferson portrayed himself as the “dream lover”: a highly skilled and ultimately unobtainable man, just like in the movies. Or did the bits about his children not bother me because that is part of the dream too, that you can do all these things and still have normal and well adjusted children?

Which doesn’t have much to do with custody battles, or morality, but I thought would be an interesting read for people that don’t understand how anyone could want to meet Jefferson after reading his blog. A “landmark case”? Indeed–but only in the sense that for the first time I’ve thought hard about how my blogging can have consequences. No matter how much I wish to have screwed hundreds of men and leave a risque memoir about it, no matter how much freedom and pleasure and revolutions it gives us, I guess (ah, the naiveté) screwing a lot of people can still mess up your life in a lot of ways.

EVERYONE needs to read the 14th and 15th comments on this post.
http://debaucheddomesticdiva.blogspot.com/2008/08/crazy-train.html

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Heh, he still has his profile up on okcupid. That’s one track that wasn’t cleared up. Shame on FoJ for not covering that up.

Yes, he has an OKC profile, but he hasn’t logged in since December.

Let’s not stir up controversy where there is none.

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@Avah, I think the PP was referring to the now private myspace profiles and such. When everything was getting shut down, looks like okcupid was missed. That’s all.

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http://onelifetaketwo.blogspot.com/2008/08/event.html

Did anyone go to this? Anyone know how it went? His “statment” is so delusional. He thinks he some sort of sexual rights super hero. He’s a princely bum!

Get a job buddy. Its no one elses job to pay for your court case. This isn’t about sexual rights, he knows that, I know that all of you know that. This is such a sham.

Are these women(FOJ’s) going to pay for this for the duration of the case? When will anyone wake up.

Will anyone make this man take responsibility for himself? This isnt about his ex’s “Great financial advantage” what a load of crap. Turn it around Jefferson, its about you not holding a job for the last 5 years. Its about you allowing strangers to have sex in your children’s bed. Its about you having men to your home to pay to watch you have sex with women, its about you, you, you, you, its about YOU having put YOURSELF first for years now.

That is all this is about. This will all come out in court. You will loose. If this is not your rock bottom, that will be. You will not be triumphant because YOU ARE IN THE WRONG.

Deal with it like a man for christsakes.

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@ So Sick of His BS

So how do you really feel?

I don’t believe the glowing report from the party either. I bet that he is sorry not have been there since he loves a party so. I knew he wouldn’t attend. I just knew. He wouldn’t want to face any detractors or to have to answer any uncomfortable questions. His drinking would be scrutinized too.

The FOJ should pay for his defense if Jefferson is so important to them.

The family of Jefferson’s ex-wife must really hate him now since how else would she be able to afford such costly legal challenge without their help? He went from living in her family’s apartment rent free to being taken to court by them. I guess Lucy’s father in law really hated the blog.

I can only be left to imagine who has the most interest or motivation to silence my voice about Jefferson.

Do they own Google? How are you being “silenced”? I found your blog just fine.

From what I can tell here, Jefferson is not a stable person, let alone a stable parent. That should be the basis of any child custody battle, and I’m sorry but he sounds unfit. Sorry if that upsets some 20-something blogger who played housewife with him for a weekend in between group sex affairs but get a grip.

It seems to me some aren’t willing to let go of their one stop shop for living out their most filthy fantasies, as this creep-o would take all comers, no matter how hot and damaged, or sweet and frumpy. Or vice versa. Need to be de-virgnized? Interested in being beaten, and anonymous sex? Got ya covered! Want to feel like you’re part of a community, and meet friends who are really more you’re speed? Jefferson’s house of sex has you covered. Do they feel bad about squirting DP sessions in the oldest child’s bedroom? Did they feel violated when Jefferson invited strangers from Craigslist to partake in “transactions”? I’m sorry, but none of this is going to be covered in the custody papers.

This community should be ashamed of itself, for not just enabling this character, but also for allowing him to shut down discourse under the guise of free speech. Worse, for allowing him to get away with behavior which clearly many of you take a passionate stance against in private, while publicly saying nothing until now. That seems to be the elephant in the room being channeled through frustrations over Jefferson’s fundraising appeals. The amazing thing is while wrapping your heads around this attempt not to stigmatize any sexual behavior as “wrong”, no matter what it was, many of you in fact know better. There is a line of healthy sexual expression which has been crossed. It’s not a deviant line, and it has nothing to do with bisexuality, it’s a line where being a parent comes first. Mutual consent with your partners comes first. Safety, in every sense of the word, comes first.

So this is a challenge to the FOJ…
….if you stand behind what you did with Jefferson, and what Jefferson does, not just behind closed doors, but publicized through his blog….. and you stand behind this as a free speech issue, and feel slighted by being characterized as members of what amounts to a sex cult, then UNLOCK YOUR BLOGS and address these issues.

@ugh, APPLAUSE! YES!

(who locked their blogs?)

I think Ugh meant that some blogs have become invited reader only. They were public in the past.

This thread seems to have degenerated somewhat….

I’m just hoping it all ends up like the fable of the Ant and the Grasshopper. The Somerset Maugham version, that is…

Thinking about starting a blog that just lists the real identity of all these NYC sex bloggers (and a few farther west), just to make the point that free speech is not actually free. Jefferson’s identity would surely be newsworthy, at least by GAWKER standards. Not sure about some of the others. Just pondering.

@ Willy Wonka, You are crazy!

For those interested in reading further about Willy Wonka, check out the last 2 or 3 posts on Diva’s blog. She posted on here upthread and her name links to her blog.

Jefferson, I mean, Willy, I don’t know how to tell you this but the revelation of your true name to the genral public would not be very interesting at all. Except for further embarrassing your ex-wife and your kids, no one will really care. Sure. A few people at your children’s school might but other than that… Your current neighbors might like the information but that’s about it.

Jefferson, you don’t have a 9-5 job in the banking industry, you are not an elementary school teacher, you are not a minister, etc. When you go back to working , how much will your Jefferson identity matter in the job you get?

Post Script: I don’t believe that you know the real names of the other bloggers anyway. Who are you going to start with first? The Friends of Jefferson?

Since I don’t know who the FOJ is, I would start with Jefferson. Trying to decide if Madeline Glass meets the Gawker standard. If you actually were paying attention to Diva’s blog, or OLTT, you would know who he is, and could then appreciate why there might be some minor news interest in this whole flap. Hint: He is published, and has been quoted in the New York Times. Send me an email and I will show what I dredged up in 30 minutes on the internet. Still haven’t worked through the ethics of publishing a blog to make a point, but since I am anonymous, and he is not, I don’t mind sharing privately. What you do with it would be your business.

@Willy Wonka:

whether or not you are in fact jefferson, you are damn creepy. what fucking point are you trying to make, first by stopping just short of threatening to out diva to her husband, THEN by coming on here and threatening to out ALL nyc sex bloggers (and others farther west) in your own anonymous blog? really, what are you trying to prove with this information? that sex blogging has consequences? that point has already been proven by the fact that jefferson’s ex-wife found his blog and is suing for custody of his children.

frankly this is making you look less and less like an “anonymous” blogger and more and more like an insider with a vendetta to settle. cease and desist, creep!

Desire,

Yesterday, I was vociferously defending myself against charges that I was Jefferson. Numerous blog comments have appeared about Jefferson inadvertently outing his identity, and a few comments have been made claiming that he wanted to out himself (an analysis that I find to be ridiculously naïve). No one in this “community” has challenged those statements.

I have merely raised the ante, by proffering that I do know who Jefferson is, and was considering starting my own blog about him and others. Over the top, probably. I was then asked specifically who I was talking about, and I answered truthfully. This has all taken place on a pair of blogs where comments are moderated, and the blog publisher could choose to exercise editorial control. I have obviously not yet crossed Dacia’s or Diva’s journalistic boundaries and I don’t intend to.
I got involved in this brouhaha trying to send a quick, and poorly worded comment, to a moderated space, with a “please do not post this” note attached. It was truly only intended for Diva at the time. She published it, and jumped to the conclusion that I was Jefferson, trying to threaten her into silence. I cooperated with her attempts to satisfy her that I was not J. I ended that discussion in her blog, and invited others that still did not believe me to contact me via email, as I was done disturbing her blog, on this tangential discussion.

I have said before, and I will say again, I was not trying to threaten Diva.

After it was published by others, that Jefferson had outed himself, I took the time to actually go look him up beyond the superficial. In a new or old media world, his identity is newsworthy by almost any journalistic standard.

I am not some internet super sleuth. I am not an insider of the NYC sex blog set. I am observant; I have a modicum of familiarity with internet search tools, and some understanding of how information can be related. I am probably one of hundreds of people who have ascertained Jefferson’s real world identity, either recently, or from having known him for a while.

The fact that people can publish electronically, without editorial control, is both the beauty and the bane of the blog world. I am just offering to provide one set of counter balances.

…so let’s get this straight…. because you found Jefferson’s identity, you suddenly have the ability to expose other bloggers? All from google? You’re saying this is all to avenge being mistaken as Jefferson? I get it….of those ingrate bloggers misunderstood the kindness of your heart, as threats then you’ll show them, you’ll make real threats…!!

Well this isn’t a Batman comic, you stupid putz.

No casual reader would use the acronyms this person uses, make the statements this person makes, or have enough invested interest to bother harassing bloggers with threats about their privacy. More importantly, they wouldn’t bother trying to discourage anyone from speaking out against what is clearly a deranged individual.

Forget his custody case…. something’s not right about the guy and since this is about the children, let’s expand that definition of children to include a few of the child-bride bloggers he’s exploited, and continues to exploit.

WIlly Wonka, I’ve looked at the posts you’re talking about on Diva’s journal. You didn’t cooperate with her efforts. She says she was unable to match you with anything and you haven’t sent her the info she asked for. I strongly suspect you are Jefferson or someone acting/posting on his orders. You add to that suspicion with every retort you make and especially every time you tell people to email you (trying to figure out some identities so you can threaten to out some more people if they don’t stop writing about you?). Jefferson’s identity isn’t newsworthy in any sense of that word. He has no job and he hasn’t had one in years! You’re feeling hunted now, and more and more information is becoming public. Your ex-wife’s lawyers are the best money can buy, according to you, so surely they know how to search for information. What has surfaced in the blogging community this month is enough to cost any parent custody. The allegations of prostitution via Craigs List alone is enough to set off screaming alarms. But at least we’re getting to the real underlying issues now, right? I haven’t heard any of that First Amendment nonsense for a while. It’s not a custody case based on bisexuality (a laughable claim to begin with given your ex-wife’s family history). It never has been, has it. It’s about a life out of control and the inability to support one’s children as a result.

@twodogzz

Willy sent me all the information I asked for but I was unable to match his IP to anything on my stats for earlier that morning when the comment was left on my blog. I was able to match him later in the day when he left his 2nd comment on the Freedom of Speech post to the state he gave me that he said he was from. Tess and I both looked over my stats and took screen caps at the time.

At this point I honestly have no idea who Willy Wonka is or why he is making all these threats to out NYC bloggers. I really don’t think Jefferson would be pretending to be someone else right now and threatening to out himself in these comments because personally I think Jefferson has bigger problems with all the Craigs List ads that were left in the comments on my blog earlier today. One of which he deleted one within 5 minutes of reading it today.

Thanks for that clarification, Diva. I assumed that WW was threatening to out Jefferson with no intention of actually doing so (he seems to be eager to get people to email him and so he’s dangling bait, maybe). Anyway, if Jefferson and WW are two different people, who knows WHAT motivation either one of them have. Weirdness abounds.

@ Willy Wonka

“In a new or old media world, his identity is newsworthy by almost any journalistic standard.”

No. Jefferson’s identity is NOT newsworthy by any standard. Since you have found it (or you ARE him) you know what he did before and it doesn’t really matter that he is the great Jefferson now.

Gee. I took Willy Wonka’s comment as a challenge. I consider myself an above-average (but hardly expert) internet user. It took me all of ten minutes to associate one of “Jefferson”’s email addresses with his real name. After that, I was able to find the above-referenced New York Times interview (hint: it was in 2002). I was even able to find what I am pretty sure is his next upcoming court date, as well as the actual trial date a few months from now.

The subject matter of “Jefferson”’s previous career is most definitely relevant to newsworthiness. It is this last(?) job which would make interesting news of his involvement in a custody battle with sexual activity at the forefront of the issues.

Why’d he lose that job, anyway? It seems tailor made for his skills and interests. It also appears he had the job well into late 2006. What gives there?

For the record, I’m not on the East Coast and haven’t met any of you. Nor have I slept with or even met Jefferson. This is my first time posting a comment in any of your blogs.

I’m sorry, I just have to point out that all of this is getting way out of hand.

Everyone, just ignore Willy Wanka. Seriously. There’s no need to get into an online pissing match. It’s no good for anyone.

The discussion was good in the beginning, but all the good questions have been asked with zero answers so now the crazies are coming out to stir things up again. Lame.

Let’s all agree to drop this and just move on.

Did you open up comments again?

Ok. Questioned answered.

Let me take this opportunity to thank you for allowing this discussion to take place. You have been a good sport to leave this thread open and allow people to question, vent, praise, criticize, and even act out.

So many blogs enabled “No Comments Allowed” regarding Jefferson’s appeal. By letting this thread run it’s course, YOU have done much for Free Speech over the last month. Free Speech here meaning the ability to speek freely. Not the 1st Amendement definition which I do believe involves government muzzling.

Call me crazy, but stalking isn’t covered under the 1st Amendment. I find it really creepy when anyone is willing to go through the trouble of private investigating via Google just to out another person. Surely, I’m not alone in this. What good does that information do anyone? I don’t think people are really so concerned with Jefferson’s real name but are more concerned about the issues brought about by this case. Threatening to out people is sad–sad because you shouldn’t have so much time on your hands nor the bile in your heart to further hurt people. Idle hands are the devil’s playground.

Wow. So we’re back to the “people should only find information we *want* them to find” topic. Sorry, the real world doesn’t work that way. If you do not realize that there is tons of information readily available about each and every one of us — perhaps it’s time for a “vanity search” to see how much others can really find out about you.

Let’s go back to a couple of fundamental definitions.

First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of Law
Main Entry: stalk·ing
: the act or crime of willfully and repeatedly following or harassing another person in circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to fear injury or death esp. because of express or implied threats

I always fail to understand how discovering public information can be considered “stalking”. One vanity search and one post saying “Hey, I was able to find this information easily” does not equal stalking. There are no threats here. I don’t see *anyone* saying “I’m going to post “Jefferson”’s real name if certain demands are not satisfied.”

As has been pointed out by others previously, “Jefferson” opened himself to public scrutiny once he asked the public to fund his legal battle. There are countless other families currently in the same predicament who do not have the luxury of asking their sycophants for financial support.

Oh, by the way, I neglected to mention in my previous post that I eventually found “Jefferson”’s phone number, which was listed on his vanity website. That phone number, when plopped into Google, gave me a street address. That address appears to be the co-op apartment from which he was evicted.

Information is out there. Free speech does not mean free from consequences. If you want to live this kind of non-mainstream lifestyle, and write about it publicly, you really ought to understand that.

I have made no threats, nor have I seen threats made by others. Speaking only for myself, my motive is curiosity, not bile. I am guessing that your spare time is having lots of sex with lots of different people and then writing about it. At the very least, your spare time is spent reading websites like this one. My spare time is spent reading websites like this one and occasionally finding out more about the authors who write them. How is that remarkable? Or surprising? It’s human nature. If it weren’t, then magazines like People and websites like TMZ.com would not be able to make any money. People want to know more about “celebrities”, big or small. And like it or not, “Jefferson” is now a “celebrity”, at least in certain circles. It’s only natural that people would want to know more.

If you can’t handle the scrutiny, then perhaps blogging *in general* isn’t for you, regardless of the topic.

Umm… was that directed at me, amused? I was talking about the Willy Wonka person who did seem to make threats, veiled and otherwise. For the record, I’m married and monogamous, quite happily so. I occasionally write about the sex we’re having (or not having), but my blog is about lots of things. I rant about our dogs, green living, food, and other pretty mundane stuff. I, too, am not part of the NY sex blogger scene.

For the record, I don’t think it’s natural for people to want to know his name, address, or phone number. I also don’t think it’s natural for people to want to post it considering the creepy factor w/his kids. Whether you think he was reckless in protecting their identity or not, I feel that one cannot gain anything but a bigger ego by outing another.

Ursula,
By that standard, men or women accused or even convicted of sex crimes, or other violent acts, should have thier identity protected, if they are parents. It would not violate your standards to identify childless offenders. I am not trying to draw perfect parallels here. I am trying to follow your arguement to it’s logical concluscion

Who said anything about a logical conclusion? I reserve my right to be as illogical as I want, but what’s illogical about what I said? Love, hate, or ambivalence. What’s the point in posting his info? Great, you found it. What does it matter except to prove that one can easily be found by anyone who wants to know badly enough?

Those threatening to post the true identity are giving themselves too much power. If it’s posted, so what?

Exactly. I figured out Jefferson’s identity because of information divulged in blogs like Waking Vixen, along with his own. It wasn’t very well concealed. I wanted to know simply so I could keep a distance from him and his inner circle. Now, as much as his identity is rather Gawker worthy, in great part because of his work history (why are people denying that?!) I can’t see why anyone would want personal info like an address, or toss around the idea of exposing bloggers unless they have a personal interest.

Jefferson is a nihilist who has already been exposed to his ex-wife, and it’s pretty obvious that this story will be picked up. It’s inevitable his identity will be revealed. His activities were so over the top, don’t be shocked if he goes public himself and tries to exploit the situation. Just keep that in mind if Jefferson or “Willy Wonka” tries to exert some power over innocent parties involved. I’m saying this knowing it’s possible someone who isn’t brave enough to speak out has received additional blackmailing threats from who knows where taking advantage of the situation. It doesn’t appear that all of his “friends” have always used common sense - so if you’re a blogger feeling threatened for whatever reason, make sure you document it, and don’t hesitate to file a police report if the violation warrants it.

In the context of this discussion, and the original post, Jefferson was a minor public figure who espoused a belief that the people in the forefront of these sex parties come to them from academic backgrounds, with interests in gender studies. They take away the seediness and are creating smart, comfortable, sex-positive environments where people can explore not just sexual pleasure, but sexuality in general.

Since then, what has come out in various blog posts and comments would seem to imply that the reality was many times far from smart, and comfortable.

One blogger actually has said she was assualted by him, by a foriegn object, at one of these parties. Her experience, and it’s aftermath, described in a heartbreaking set of posts, were then denied, and she was shunned by other members of this “community”.

Others have described advertised sex for hire schemes, on craigslist. (I realize not all the young women involved were unwilling or unwitting partcipants, Avah, for one, has stated that her involvement in these CL advertised activities were entirely voluntary). It is hard to imagine not ascribing some level of seediness to these activities.

It would appear that it was more important to protect the name of the “sex positive community”, than to protect the people in it.

What I find most interesting, is that many people observed and participated in these events, and in hindsight have come forward now to decry the bad behavior that they have witnessed, in some cases for years, but did nothing to stop it, or say anything about it.

For me, his actual identity has given the whole backstory context, and has helped to explain some of the connections with many of the people commenting and blogging now.

I have not posted his name because I don’t have a blog, and I am not going to violate Dacia’s space here. She knows who he is, and has elected not to name him.

Just to address Blips comment:

I have identified two people involved, Jefferson and Madeline Glass. I said I was not sure of MG’s newsworthyness, but even Blip admits Jefferson’s name is newsworthy.

Since my posting I have recieved 10 requests for people to tell me who J is, and one request asking for how I found out his name.

I have recieved one threatening email, which wasn’t much of a threat, but I found it interesting that the very activity Jefferson was being accussed of was being applied to me.

Writing with pseudonyms can allow speech without taking personal responsibility, whether the chosen name is invented, borrowed from fiction (Willy Wonka) or history (Tom Paine).

Somehow in all the frantic blogging of every sex act, everyone seemed to forget to mention the exchange of money.
They had no problem detailing all sorts of intimate acts, but this detail got left out.

I guess it was obvious to Jefferson and the women involved that it didn’t fit the image they wanted to portray. Interesting.

Context? That’s an understatement. It makes a fair number of the replies from people who know him seem really strange. I can’t even articulate how deceiving it makes the FOJ appeal for money seem, not to mention this entire discussion with people putting up the false pretense of finally speaking out when really just creating another layer of some bullshit charade. There’s a level of dishonesty about what’s really going on here.

Writing with pseudonyms can allow speech without taking personal responsibility

That’s exactly what has happened with “Jefferson”, no?

Except someone who “wasn’t supposed to know” figured out his pseudonym, and now he is bearing the very real personal responsibility.

anonymous @7:51, uh, you do know that the real Tom Paine himself wrote under a pseudonym, right? Have you noticed that you’re writing with one now?

There’s nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with choosing to write under a pseudonym. Writing under a pseudonym does not automatically invalidate the opinion expressed. It even helps preserve freedom of speech, because one can tell the truth without fear of being targeted for personal or political punishment.

@ amused bystander, I am going to have to agree with you on that!

Some of your other assertions scare me though.

@blip, “I can’t even articulate how deceiving it makes the FOJ appeal for money seem”

Many people found the Friends of Jefferson (FOJ) appeal deceptive from the outset. That is what got this entire thread going a month ago. Read the blog entry Audacia wrote please.

While different posters on here may be focusing on different aspects of Jefferson’s character, the appeal for money by the Friends of Jefferson has been unappealing to many.

@Anon Now — I’m happy if some of my assertions scare you. I’m just trying to get people to think about decisions, actions, and repercussions.

Anon now - Dacia’s original post was equally as misleading in it’s omissions.

When/if people find out some of the background, context behind this the reaction is going to be one big “what the fuck?” and “Ohhhhhh that makes sense, how sad, why’d you act like this was about this and that instead?”. The way it’s being framed here is absurd. I don’t know if it’s to purposely protect something they care about, or if it’s the case of a community of enablers who have their own issues and delusions to work through. It’s ultimately none of my business though. If anyone thinks these comments are starting to sound like Cheshire Cat riddles, I’ll suggest you go back to the beginning of Dacia’s blog and read carefully. I have a feeling a few of the FOJ might need to do the same.

@blip, I read some of the earlier posts.

http://www.wakingvixen.com/blog/2005/12/14/give-the-gift-of-mind-blowing-fuckery/

reminded me of a different time and place. Is Britney Spears a good analogy? I don’t know.

The Friends of Jefferson have known Jefferson for years. These are Bridget, Viviane and Lynsey.

They have blogs detailing their long standing relationships with Jefferson. Bridget has Bridget’s Boys. Vivianne has Vivianne’s Sex Carnival and Lyndsey has Sexedupstick Figures.

@Willy Wonka (6:44pm):

you’re right, a lot of people failed to speak out against reprehensible behaviour in the sex-positive community. to be fair though, there was a LOT of smoke and mirrors involved. i mean for example i live in DC and am relatively new to the scene, so if i didn’t a) know a lot of scene people in new york and b) read a lot of blogs, i probably wouldn’t know about the less savoury stuff that went on. hell, i didn’t even find out about the kinky librarian assault until recently - simply because i’m unfamiliar with her blog and she was left off the blogroll.

What you (The Friends of Jefferson) accomplished with your plea of aid was to unleash the scads of people who seem to have long standing issues with J and are posting things that even shock me in Dacia’s comments.

From Diva’s blog post “Stranger Than Fiction” August 30, 2008

“simply because i’m unfamiliar with her blog and she was left off the blogroll”

I am not surprised that she was.

Appears that the Kinky Librarian was left off many blogrolls since as she says she was ostracized for speaking out.

You might have found her through something like Bridget’s Boys or some other blog or did no one from the community link to her?

I’ve been reading these blogs for about a year now, and I didn’t know about Kinky Librarian until I saw her linked from either Bondage Blog or Spanking Blog or Spanking Bethie. Either way, it was from someone’s blog who exists outside the NYC sex blogger community. I don’t, however, claim to read ALL the NYC bloggers, so I’m sure I could’ve just missed her from somewhere else a bit closer.

Re: Kinky Librarian - its true that Nadia was de-linked and deleted from blogrolls in the spring/summer of 2005, and some of that was because of the refusal of people to deal with what she was saying. However, the other part of the reason why there aren’t a lot of links to her current blog is that she pulled her original Blogspot blog offline, moved a few times, and blogged under other names. She’s only recently resurfaced as Kinky Librarian. This isn’t to excuse behavior, but its part of the online provenance of these things.

I am one of the people who didn’t support Nadia enough - she and I have since talked about this. I didn’t name her/link to her in this post because I know the incident is still very much a trigger for her and I didn’t want to drag her into the discussion if she didn’t want to be in it again.

@blip I’m a little hesitant to ask, but what do you think was “equally as misleading” about my post? Though certainly there are things I didn’t name or link to in my post (Kinky Librarian), I wasn’t being intentionally misleading, it was more an attempt at tact. The post wasn’t meant to be totally comprehensive in detailing all of Jefferson’s misdeeds, it was meant to open up discussion on the subject - and holy hell has it ever. If you’re referring to the sex acts/shows for money that were happening with Jefferson and various women, though he hasn’t written about this stuff recently I didn’t think it was a big secret; its certainly been blogged in the past.

“online provenance of these things” - Dacia, your researcher is showing.

To offer an opinion on this:

“…why I’ve publicly kept my trap shut about this stuff (for years, in some cases)”

As his intern, you had formative experiences with him. He has been described as charming, warm, approachable, and engaging. He (from his real world writings) was obviously erudite, well spoken, and had an interest beyond the academic in the very things you blog about in the early stages of your blog. He must have been a mentor for you at least early on.

All these things represent high bars to overcome, when trying to decide just what would you do to curb the destructive, self and otherwise, behaviors you were starting to recognize.

Added to that is the natural tendency of people to operate in packs, and to defer to authority (the Milgram and Stanford experiments come to mind).

It is why a cringe a little when people talk about “the scene”, or “the community”. I am ever mindful that what the participants in these, some quite extreme, sexual experiences and events, is very powerful, human to human interaction. The playing with anonymous sex, subjection of one persons will to another, and other forms of sexuality is very powerful stuff. Every person going into this needs to keep there heads about them. I believe in personal responsibility, and I am not denying that the women, and I am sure some of the young men, bear some of the responsibility for the outcomes (I am specifically excluding Nadia from this, who really did everything right). Even with personal responsibility, society and community exist to maintain standards of behavior.

I wonder if the very transgressive nature of the sexual experimentation and experience that was being pursued, contributed to the loosening of, or losing sight of the fact, that community was still needed.

This is probably poorly worded. I am not attacking anyone here (I will cop to being outraged at Jefferson, and no I don’t know him, but I did not know Ted Bundy either.)

Write, revise, edit… Write, revise, edit…

7th graph, there should be …their….

And Dacia, joining the comment above, I do appreciate the opportunity to put forth a contrarian view, even if done in a controversial way. Thank you.

@ Audacia Ray, “The post wasn’t meant to be totally comprehensive in detailing all of Jefferson’s misdeeds, it was meant to open up discussion on the subject - and holy hell has it ever.”

Such an odd twist of fate that Jefferson’s outrageous financial appeal led to all this.

Would this conversation be taking take place if he hadn’t done that? Much of the dissatisfaction with him goes back years but it took asking for 20 thousand dollars to get people talking.

Or maybe him having custody issues is enough?

If not asked for money, would the internet reading and blogging public be re-examining their relationship with Jefferson as they have done now?

The appeal started out as a weak claim for his constitutional rights but that has faded away while the testimony of what many have experienced at his hands has emerged.

@ Audacia Ray, “I am one of the people who didn’t support Nadia enough”

I am very glad that Nadia is finally validated. Sometimes you have to wait until the truth is exposed. It’s cool that you are willing to admit that you could have reacted differently.

Dacia - I think it’s misleading to mention Jefferson’s drinking problems, and then knowingly leave out what clearly looks to be a deeper mental health issue of sex addiction, and a researcher who took their studies too far. It angers me that people who know him, are obscuring this very important detail, and keeping the con going by leaving the door open to debate this as a case of possible sexual persecution.

Would someone who is thinking about writing Jefferson for sex really be any more educated about the world they were getting themselves tangled up in based on this conversation or your post?

When the Dacia, and Educated Slut personas were created they lent Jefferson a certain amount of credibility, don’t you think? Here he was surrounded by sex educators who dabbled in mild sex work, porn, orgies, all in the spirit of experimentation with an intellectual reflexive approach. You even posted their pictures online. What developed for Jefferson clearly spiraled out of control. You know the real story, and it’s still not being discussed. Don’t you think the point of speaking out is to speak the truth?

I don’t think that Dacia posted the above entry to warn people away from having sex with Jefferson. It was a discussion about his legal fund appeal and how there might be more going on than he claimed was charged in the custody dispute.

Everyone including myself has gotten off topic.

I actually don’t think I know the “real” story at this point (to the extent that a real story even exists) - some of what has been revealed in the comments here and via email to me over the last month has been new information to me. I have not been close to Jefferson at all since the end of 2005/beginning of 2006, so I have spoken the truth as I know it, but there are gaps in my knowledge because I have significantly disengaged with the friendship over the last several years. Much of what I know about Jefferson in the here and now is admittedly second hand information. I am not really an authority withholding information.

So yes, the Educated Slut and I both lent credibility to Jefferson’s online persona, just as he lent credibility to our offline professional lives - we were both his interns at some point. I was 21 when I started working for him; I am 28 now and much has changed in between - and Willy Wonka is spot on in saying he was a mentor for me early on. So, certainly, if you go back four years to the beginning of my blog the story is different. There have been a lot of changes since then - and both on blog and off blog experiences have helped to shape those changes and who we are today .

As far as the assertion that I “knowingly leave out what clearly looks to be a deeper mental health issue of sex addiction, and a researcher who took their studies too far” - this is a pretty loaded statement. Addictions are complex things and problems with substance abuse are often paired with other mental health issues, and there’s a lot of controversy around whether or not “sex addiction” exists as a real mental illness (the DSM says no). And this isn’t to say that there isn’t mental illness or addiction stuff going on here (that’s for a mental health professional to diagnose), but I think often the phrase “sex addict” is thrown around when the person really should be called “selfish asshole.” And as far as the “a researcher who took their studies too far” part of it - that’s something that’s could also be applied to me. I was a burgeoning researcher when I started working for Jefferson in 2001, but have become that and then some, and some people would surely apply this phrase to me (my parents, for example - though they are more supportive and accepting these days).

I am not defending Jefferson’s actions, only saying that I don’t know the full extent of what he’s been up to. And yes, I’d say he probably has a problem with sex, but in the grander scheme of things this is a slippery slope. That said, I think that most readers of this post and others that have been scattered around the internet have enough information to realize that this is not a clearcut case of being persecuted for sexual orientation.

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@ Audacia Ray, “I think often the phrase “sex addict” is thrown around when the person really should be called “selfish asshole.”

So true!

I’m sorry, but that’s a cop out.

I don’t think the term alcoholic was being used here for any other reason then it’s actual meaning, and likewise, I don’t think anyone is using the phrase sex addict in substitution of selfish asshole or any other insult for that matter. Addictions exist, and it’s clear we’re talking about someone who engaged in compulsive self destructive behavior, which was channeled through sex (along with various friends who either shared, enabled, or ignored it). Not to discount how destructive alcoholism can become, or an endless list of other possible issues going either, but as far as I know, this person wasn’t published on the topic of bourbon distilleries or trying to duplicate Southern Comfort in his bathtub.

@ Audacia Ray, “I have not been close to Jefferson at all since the end of 2005/beginning of 2006, so I have spoken the truth as I know it, but there are gaps in my knowledge because I have significantly disengaged with the friendship over the last several years.”

Was that intentional or did it happen naturally? Even your blog reflects diminished contact.

Everyone, especially you, Anon Now, is way too interested in all of this.

http://debaucheddomesticdiva.blogspot.com/2008/09/divas-plea_04.html

http://designingintimacy.com/2008/09/avahs-plea.html

Reading these feels like falling down the rabbit hole. Do people really believe that online appeals for J to “stop” are really going to be effective? Does anyone think to call his family?

The posts and comments that have come out of the wood work have been troubling to see, but the two bloggers that have posted appeals so far, don’t look like aggrieved parties to me. I suspect the people most injured by their involvement with Jefferson are not blogging now, if they ever have.

If the bloggers posting truly believe that J is out of control and unable to help himself, and they are truly his friends, wouldn’t taking effective IRL steps to intervene be the next logical move, rather than this online charade of soliciting comments of support for him to stop his behavior?

If they really believe that soliciting strangers on Craigslist represents a real danger to his children, shouldn’t they be more worried about that, then whether their fathers name comes out on the internet (or a more mainstream publication like TONY, or the NYT)?

I also find it interesting that all the attention is on saving poor Jefferson, rather than a more thoughtful discussion of the people who have felt minimized, manipulated, and misused by this guy.

This is like watching Brittney Spears coverage, I know it’s wrong to look, but I can’t help myself.

@blip - I thought you might have that reaction, but oh well.

@Anon Now - It was intentional, with a side of natural drifting.

@Willy Wonka - I’m personally not interested in expending “save Jefferson” energy. Been there, done that, don’t think it’s worth it. I think at this point it is pretty impossible to have a public, online discussion about, as you say, “people who have felt minimized, manipulated, and misused by this guy.” But just because you haven’t seen it here doesn’t mean it isn’t happening - a lot of those conversations have been taking place off line. People who feel traumatized by what’s been happening/their experiences with J have every right to not play that out in public, where they run the risk of being eviscerated in a month-long comment thread on a blog. I’m happy to offer off blog support to people who want it because I’m way more concerned about them than I am about supporting him, but I don’t think it does anyone any favors to play that out in public.

@ calm down, I am interested and I will remain interested.

Ok everyone, I am only semi surprised to the amount of interest we all have in Jefferson, his mess of a custody case and the well-intentioned but Kool Aid swigging FOJ’s who produced a misleading (at best) appeal for assistance.

This comment stream is well over 200, Diva’s is well over 50 and counting. In the meantime, Elizabeth Wood who wrote about it in broader fashion, one that really impacts all of us, over at Sex in the Public Square (http://sexinthepublicsquare.org/ElizabethsBlog/writing-sex-and-parenting) got 5 comments.

Clearly, given the popularity of gossip and celebrity blogs (this blog is neither), we are a nation of voyeurs who often get our vicarious rocks off at the antics and foolhardiness of others. (I admit one of my own guilty pleasure is Dlisted.) Dacia’s post here was needed at the time in order to cast some light upon the back story behind that most audacious of appeals. She has kept her comments open and let all of us share her space. How about we now at least use it to broaden the discussion and answer some of those very important questions posed by Elizabeth and get out of the man’s dirty laundry. Frankly, to me, he’s just not worth the effort.

So here’s what Elizabeth asked:

# How should a person’s private troubles be portrayed publicly in order to generate support, and how should those claims be evaluated by readers?

# When, if ever, should sexuality, sexual expression figure in to custody cases?

# How do we make it safer for people to openly discuss their whole lives, including their sexuality and their parenting?

# Given the stigmatization of sex how do we manage the difficulties (logistical, personal) of balancing risk of exposure with need to live openly and honestly or the need to express ourselves fully? How should we address the injustice of our kinks should be considered ammunition when they do not interfere with our work or our parenting.

# How can a community like this manage conflict and disagreement between its members while retaining the strength and vibrancy of the community? (Conflict management has also been a significant issue in the University of New Mexico crisis.)

There are some very smart and incisive people commenting here. Let’s put our intellect to some good use now. I think our energy and thoughts are more useful when put up against these broader issues. And also, I think if I have to read any more about Jefferson I may just barf.

I find it interesting that the comments cease as soon as the blogger that calls herself “Avah” decides she is taking the high road.

Have you finished your tantrum honey? Or do you think you will win him back this way?

Fickle, fickle internet.

Uh, I don’t think Avah had anything to do with it. I think the incredibly heady, intellectual, and largely unanswerable questions posted by Tess are what killed the thread. Questions which no one here is interested in discussing, apparently.

Here, have a more salacious question: one of the blog posts seems to imply that “Jefferson” was arrested on suspicion of prostitution. True or false?

@amused bystander: Where? When? What post?

@the commenter that calls him/herself “Interesting!”

Lame. Ultra lame.

@Tess/amused bystander: they are very deep questions, and probably best discussed in a different post. ie, one with less dirty laundry. no idea on the prostitution arrest, although that would indeed be salacious.

@Interesting!: super hella-lame. maybe if you bothered to go actually read Avah’s blog you’d see not only how much she’s being torn apart by all this, but also how shallow, juvenile, and stupid your comment is. grow up please.

Tess, and Elizabeth asked a bunch of really irrelevant questions in the context of Jefferson’s extremely abnormal situation. It only plays into the original scam appeal from FOJ and that one attorney. Fear mongering isn’t a good jumping off place for this type of discussion, and neither is Jefferson.

It’s because the issues are bigger then any one person that the conversation ran it’s course, and that is to say, it’s not something the community wants to own up to and face. Who gives a shit about questions like “How do we make it safer for people to openly discuss their whole lives, including their sexuality and their parenting?” when nobody is addressing the real questions like “How is it so many people condoned orgies in a child’s bedroom?” This is the same social group who cheered on College Callgirl’s description of unprotected gloryhole style sex with a random patron at a sex shop, and defended it under the banner of Feminism. I see very smart people intellectualizing reckless, self destructive, irresponsible behavior because it’s supposedly sexy. So to read someone proposing you discuss “conflict management” in the community strikes me as a load of bullshit. Conflict management? How about how to balance your fear of stigmatizing your wild party lives, and keep the fun going while still acting with common sense, and integrity?

What is the stupidity with this calendar? Have you not all learned ANYTHING from Jefferson? As soon as you tire of ripping him apart you do something stupid en masse?

Pathetci idiots. All of you. “Ooooo…. I have sex… I like to talk about sex…”

NEWS FLASH: EVERYONE DOES!!!!!

What is so lacking in all of our lives that you must do this? Do you get it? This isn’t a crusade, this is a bunch of people who are missing something in their lives, who find safty in numbers and mistake simple insecurity, turning it into… a movement?

Please.

I think the calendar, in theory, is fine. But, what I find interesting is that it goes to benefit sex workers, when many of the people involved are the very same ones who found sex work disgusting if Jefferson was engaged in it. Or claimed that it made him an unfit parent.

My favorite was, I can’t remember who said it, I think Diva, but someone said on their blog that they “weren’t opposed to sex work,” but it would make him an unfit parent because it would mean Jefferson was giving out his address to strangers. Um, so do like freelance… artists or photographers. Or anyone who works from home and has multiple clients. There was so obviously something about sex work itself or “the kind of people who would do that sort of thing” that the person had a problem with. That those seeking such services must be sick or twisted or dangerous. But, suddenly, when it means you can get naked for a calendar with your friends, sex work is fine and to be celebrated and supported?

So - calendar, fine, and probably most involved with it, fine. But I see some definite hypocrisy. And, if your point is that it’s stupid for people who didn’t support him and said he knew the risks to do something that might have a good chance of “outing” themselves, yea, I see that too.

@ the last two anons: you guys really don’t get it.

first of all, there’s a difference between being photographed for a calendar for charity, in which you can veto a photo if it looks too much like you, and giving strangers the address to your apartment, in which you house minors half the week, for the purposes of engaging in a sex-for-money transaction.

second of all, there’s a difference between freelancing in a legal business from your home and giving strangers the address to your apartment, in which you house minors half the week, for the purposes of engaging in a sex-for-money transaction.

third of all, there’s a difference between raising funds to support sex worker awareness, which considering the ills that plague sex workers in far greater numbers than the normal adult population - homelessness, disease, and unreported violence to name three off the top of my head - is a cause very worthy of support, and soliciting funds in a misleading manner for a custody case.

you want to know what jefferson did wrong? ask his friend marcus down in dc, who makes a full-time living as a male escort while supporting his children. any whore with kids and a modicum of good sense knows to do out-call only or rent a separate in-call location. then again, considering jefferson’s reluctance to use that title for himself and his chronic panhandling, it looks like neither option was ever on the table.

As to the second point, right, exactly. The difference is one is considered safe and one is not-safe, even if you give out your address with exactly as much. But the only difference is the clientele, so it must be that sex-worker-seekers are more sick or twisted or dangerous than other people.

If you believe that, that’s fine, that’s not necessarily wrong. But then why suddenly support an organization that, to me, seems to be primarily concerned with sex worker’s rights to determine how and where they want to work?

A quote from the Sex Workers Awareness website:

Re: the disadvantages of sex work
“Workplace Safety. Whether it’s on the streets, in our homes or in five star resorts, the fact is that sex workers do not enjoy the same rights as other Americans when it comes to their work (which by the way, is a PRIVATE and CONSENSUAL act between two adults.) Because we are criminalized and stigmatized, we are vulnerable to violence and exploitation.”

I could be wrong, but my impression was NOT that people here believed, if it weren’t criminal or stigmatized, it would be safe for someone with kids to engage in sex work out of their home. They seemed to believe such work was an inherently bad choice for a parent and inherently dangerous to bring into one’s home. And that’s not the stance SWA seems to espouse.

… so there’s inconsistency in what’s being supported

it goes beyond what is considered safe and not safe - look, i’ve whored before and i don’t think people who pay for sex are inherently more dangerous than other people, although i might add that giving a stranger who solicited you for a paid transaction through craigslist your home address is not the smartest move. my problem is with mixing an illegal, adult business with a domicile in which you house your children.

the analogy here is not to freelancing in a legal business. the analogy is growing pot in your kid’s closet. hey, i’m very very pro-legalization (of sex work AND pot!), but there have to be rules regarding how close something that is fundamentally meant for mature adults to enjoy should come to a child.

You are changing the facts. Of course you can support sex work and still want to make it safe and keep children away. But, there was never any allegation here that kids were directly exposed. The analogy would be growing pot in your home when the kids weren’t around, and moving it out and hiding any paraphenelia when they were.

Some may consider even unknowing exposure unacceptable for kids. (Parents shouldn’t be around pot! At least not where their children sleep!) That seems like a moral issue with drug use though. For that same person to then turn around and pose, I dunno, smoking up for a calendar to support greater legal rights to pot is inconsistent.

This doesn’t seem like line drawing, it seems like supporting a cause in theory but not actuality.

You are not going to be able to keep a watchful eye on every person that benefits from the new rights you create, to make sure they meet your own personal standards for whom and where sex work is acceptable. (No parents! No one young! Only outside of your home!)

So, maybe you don’t want to put those new rights into people’s hands… that’s why it’s illegal anyway, right? paternalism of the state and moral qualms… but, if you don’t, then you shouldn’t be posing for a calendar to do just that.

how about you actually go to the website and read what the calendar’s being made for before you spout circular logic nonsense out your ass:
http://www.sexwork101.com/about-swa/

you clearly don’t even know what the fuck sex worker awareness means and haven’t bothered to educate yourself beyond “z0mg FAKE HYPOCRISY!!”

then, go back and re-read this entire thread so you can see what people were really objecting to with jefferson’s conduct. because i’m sick of explaining it to you.

Mission Statement
We believe that all sex workers have a right to self-determination; to choose how we make a living and what we do with our bodies.

Um, I stand corrected?

scroll up (or click):

“The SFLDEF has a page with seventeen Do’s and Don’t’s to Avoid Custody Challenges. Number 3 on the list reads Keep your sex life off the Internet. Don’t blog, create webpages, or post to open or archived lists about sexually explicit material. Number 15 reads Keep your sex life separate from your parenting. Jefferson crossed both of these lines, big time: he kept a blog that was about both his sex life and parenting. Both in intimate and identifying detail with a thin veil of anonymity. Beyond the blog, this included telling his story to a weekly publication in NYC with a huge readership, in which he listed his kids’ genders and exact ages.”

…

“Although I am all for freedom of sexual expression (um, hi?) I do think that sometimes Jefferson abuses this freedom and exercises poor judgment when it comes to the often young, often insecure women he chooses to make a part of his life - as has been documented and then sometimes deleted from those women’s blogs. I feel like his behavior has not only gone unchecked but in fact has been enabled by the women who pay for his booze, rent, and other amenities. This is one of the dirty secrets of the sex blogging community, and I can’t turn away from it anymore.”

had you fully followed my directions, you would have seen that these kinds of objections are different from “all sex workers have a right to self-determination”. they stem from concerns for the people adversely affected by jefferson’s actions - and out of anger over his refusal to take basic privacy precautions to prevent his ex and possibly children from finding his blog, such as not disclosing the genders and exact ages of his children to the press. and i might add that the $20k appeal and subsequent attempts to censor others’ blogs “for the sake of the children” are what sparked most of these objections in the first place.

There’s now a FAQ on the issues in Jefferson’s custody case:

http://tinyurl.com/4qt998

Which haven’t even scratched the surface as to what’s been discussed here or elsewhere on the blogs.

My own personal question: Since there are no such things as precedents in child custody cases, why should people take this as on as their own cause? Donating hard earned money, in a failing economy no less, to someone who hasn’t earned money in years? Why should we financially support Jefferson? Plain and simple.

Another point- based on his FAQ and as I understood it, Jefferson believes he should be allowed to continue writing his blog because nothing he wrote about Lucy was slanderous or false. Yet he wanted to silence other bloggers because of what he believed was slanderous gossip. I’m willing to bet that at least 90% of what’s been revealed about him is 100% true. Why the double standards? Why is he always above his own rules?

I didn’t want to give this subject any more attention since that is what I think the FAQ’s are written to do. Keep interest going for Jefferson so maybe someone will give him money.

Isn’t that why you posted Viviane?

I couldn’t resist so here I am.

What bothers me about the FAQs is the statement that Jefferson was exiled to his father-in-law’s place. Many of us would welcome such a residence. In my experience when a couple separates the in-laws do not provide a home for the ex. I think that it is extremely generous of Jefferson’s FIL to have done that.

Asking Jefferson to leave was his father-in-law’s right too. It doesn’t really matter why he asked him to leave. It was his apartment!

That poor poor me attitude that Jefferson puts forth in the FAQs is what disgusts me about his plea for money.

Maybe this isn’t the community to say this in but maybe Jefferson’s ex-wife REALLY is concerned that the activities that she read about on his blog will harm his children? Maybe she worries that his transparency is revealing his identity could led to someone acting out with the children? She might genuinely worry about the children staying with him when people like his parents aren’t there.

I am positing this because taking on the role of full custodian would change her life too. Her freedom would be curtailed and her life would actually be made more difficult by having the kids 24/7.

What ever happened to this guy? Is he blogging elsewhere? Is his case resolved, is everyone still surrounding him. I’d like a status update. Anyone?

I check back here sometimes to see what happened too. Jefferson had such a compulsion to blog that he must be doing it somewhere?

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