Web of lies

Just a cautious suggestion here Dacia, But you may be running into problems and issues of psychological character. While it does not necessarily follow that all high libido guys lie, it could be that Selecting them for the quality of ‘high libido’ does prejudice the case against Both monogamy And ‘honesty’ in relationships. Throttling back a bit on that requirement may be an approach here. After all if they accept you as a poly, you may be able to meet some of these needs elsewhere.

And as someone who’s been coupled for a very long time, ‘honesty’ is relative for each personal experience. Sure, it’s not nice to screw around with X+4(?) folks at any one time w/o acknowledging it to your partner should this be expressly desired. But hon, what did you spend on that art piece? Where did you go for lunch for hours when I called? There’s lots of ryhme and reasons for even the most vanilla of couples to trade in plenty of ‘little white lies’ about everything and sundry. There’s lots of decent argument that suggests that this can be beneficial in the long run, and there’s plenty of lit on it actually.

So yes, screwing around even in a poly relationship does have it’s risks and these should be at least known and declared for obvious reasons. But chosing partners soley (or even mostly) on the fact of their Libidos has always been a recipe for some difficulty, even in paramours. I know that sounds tres bourgeois, but it’s true nevertheless. And total honesty in a relationship is nice, but it’s mostly a conceit of youth. But it is a big item, and in and around NYC (hell almost anyplace actually), it’s an important thing to know.

Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’

VJ, I definitely appreciate what you’re saying about getting needs met in different ways by different people, but it’s become clear to me through some pretty heavy trial and error that great sex (and preferably very regular great sex) is key for a suistainable primary relationship for me. Bad, inconsistent, non-libido matching sex is a bit of a deal-breaker for me because of what I do with the non-sex part of my life - oh wait, its almost all sex. For me, a successful relationship would have to include a deep sexual compatibility on both the physical and philosophical levels.

I also understand what you’re saying about white lies, and the fact that total honesty is a conceit of youth. Though maybe not directly apparent in this post, that’s a thought I’ve been coming to grips with on my own. That said, I also believe that there’s a difference between secrecy/dishonesty and privacy/white lies. It’s all a matter of drawing lines in the sand, however.

Seems like most people who are into polyamory end up at this crossroads - I know that my previous open relationship hit this problem on a number of different occasions. I don’t think that anyone I know has been able to resolve this without tears.

Like a number of difficult life decisions, this revolves heavily around the freedom vs security issue, in the end. The security of trusting a lover and being in a relationship. The freedom of fucking for your own reasons, with people you attracted to. It isn’t suprising you want both - most folks do.

Most people end up picking one or the other, after trying and failing to have both. This doesn’t mean I think you are assured the same result, but I do think that is likely that the answer is a compromise that you can live with, rather than a reconciliation of opposing ideals.

Something about the way you said “monogamy” helped me with a problem I’ve been having trying to reconcile adultery and fidelity. My little bugaboo is that it’s mostly about who’s going to be left holding the bag, or maybe getting the credit, for any resulting offspring.

Though the suffix ‘gamy’ derives from old Greek for union, marriage, or husband, and though the meaning of adultery as in “to adulterate or pollute” is more recent than the older, biblical one, I still think it’s all about keeping track of patrimony and/or child support.

We can leave for another day whether it’s more about social pressure (nurture) or some kind of sociobiological instinct (nature) or economics (who’s going to help) but except for brief periods here and there sex and pregnancy have been rather tightly associated and over time there’s been a very pragmatic bias towards getting, and staying, coupled up to raise the “innocent byproducts” (as the Left-handed Dictionary puts it.)

To be honest I don’t think it’s really in our natures, men’s or women’s, to be completely monogamous. The pragmatics of childrearing have tended to make us pay lip service to the idea however. And (if there are any Freudians left in the world) there is a tendency for us to a) push harder for rules we don’t believe in than those we do and b) for us to tend to lie about our own adherence to those rules.

The upshot is those who are content to remain approximately monogamous (whether by nurture, nature, or economics) remain, well, monogamous. Those who don’t are more likely to, well, be used to sneaking around.

I don’t believe that with the advent of really reliable birth control makes monogamy an outmoded concept. But it does undermine one of the chief external reasons for being monogamous. I think this is one of the reasons conservative people object so strenuously to birth control.

I don’t see monogamy as a value in and of itself though internal reasons, such as mutual compatibility, satisfaction with one person, and passionate love remain wonderful justifications for many people. But if one is to raise children I appreciate its merits (if, for no other reason, than because custody and visitation issues become bearishly hard on small children, and become more so the more step-parents and step-siblings there are.)

Bottom line? If you’re able to actually plan your families I think you can afford to be more a) polyamorous and b) more honest about it. It still might not be the choice of many, or even most, but over time people won’t have to lie about and sneak around it.

figleaf

Interesting points figleaf, as usual. Honesty is hard. Its doable, much as monogamy is, but its hard none the less, perhaps its a different kind of hard than lying. I personally like to avoid drama in my life, personal drama anyway, and I find that honestly and monogamy help me with that. I have been in highly dramatic relationships that involved lying, planning, covering up and then uncovering, crying and forgiveness. It was too much for me. I keep my drama on the stage these days, as much as I can and I’m happier for it. Cheers, Goose

Cheating is not just about high libidos and a lack of honesty. Cheating is part thrill ride, part power trip and yes, part sadism. You know you’re hurting your lover, but that makes the cheating even more exciting. This component is harder to capture in today’s “whatever!” climate, but humans like excitement.

I know of one woman whose partner liked to have group sex with her, but she disliked it, not because she didn’t want to sleep with others, but because she didn’t like him watching her. She preferred to slip out into another room while he was busy, or have trysts off-site to enjoy. It became a major issue for them that never quite went away until they finally gave up sleeping with other people.

Gerard Jones in his novel Ginny Good says that “jealousy is an aphrodisiac.” I think that’s true, and that the risk of being caught, the potential for major drama, makes many of us cheat. A co-worker once said how he would look his wife in the eye if she ever caught him in bed with another woman and talk his way out of it, so convinced was he of his salesmanship. He left clues and hints around, almost daring her to confront him; she never did.

He got some pay-back recently when he fell in love with someone he was cheating with, and the lover dumped him and went back to her husband. He almost walked out on his wife and kids to try and claim her back, but eventually realized that it was going to be a disaster with no good ending if he did.

My wife and I have been in a very happy marriage for almost 19 years - all of it open and honest. The key for us in being poly has been on the “no lies” part: we always know when the other is interested in someone else and wants to go play. We just maintain the right to veto one another’s choices (never happened). Having this freedom has made it possible to be faithful in the sense of loving one another without the drama or poison of suspicion. We just don’t define our relationship in terms of sex - that’s a bonus for us, and leaves us free to play.

I wouls strongly suggest visiting Polymatchmaker.com. They are much like matchmaker.com, but FREE, and open to polyamorous relationships - more than open to them in fact, they are geared for them directly. Best to be with people you can trust… for LOTS of reasons.

While I can see how a high libido can make for high temptation, it’s not something that makes one a cheater. It might be that you’re subconsciously selecting for people who break relationship rules. It does sound a lot like you’re selecting for people for whom the desire for wild impulsiveness is the most important thing.

I’m glad you know this to be the case, and aren’t in denial about it. Best advice I have is to overcome it in yourself totaly, and select for people like whoever you end up as in that paradigm.

Whatever happens, I hope you have relationships people who cherish you enough to be honest and open, and not give in to momentary impulses that are against your expressed desires.

Lots of decent advice here Dacia. But it could be that the ‘honesty’ trait pairs with something like a ‘monogamy’ preference more often, even in a poly relationship. But it is a constant conundrum and a real tension in most relationships. It could involve trying out several blokes on for size, but you already knew that. The trick is sorting the posseurs from the keepers. It is ever thus…

Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’

Assuming that your partner is deceiving you isn’t conducive to trust, or a prolonged relationship, for a lot of people, but it might be a safe bet. I recently discovered that the one I love and thought I had reunited with in a big way has sexual relationships going on with at least six, maybe seven, other women, many of them found through online dating services. Interesting, yes, and one of those painful learning experiences. I’ll never feel the same about meeting people online, and that’s a wise thing.

Once, in a conversation with a friend about this issue of cheating and secrecy, she dismissed the whole nuanced discussion with a shrug, “Cheating is my fetish. I like to be secretive. I get off on it.” This seems so viciously selfish and awful. Does shame and secrecy about sex run so deep that it becomes a fetish? Is it that impossible to communicate and negotiate needs and desires honestly with a treasured partner? And perhaps the biggest question is – should I accept that lying is a part of “the game” (ew) or at least part of a pattern that needs a lot of attention in order to be tackled? I’m not in either the business or pleasure of fixing people or taking on people’s problems as my own if I can avoid it, but I’m also well aware that people have their baggage.

In our society that so readily demonizes sex and glorifies violence how can this not be a fetish to many people? I get that it can also be not a fetish, but only to some people. In the world that I was raised sex requires and emotional commitment. I know this sounds odd coming from a man, and coming from a man who interacts with the sex industry as much as I do, but it is the case. You know I was going to write it is ‘sadly’ the case, but I am really not that sad about it.

I lived in a world where I couldn’t tell my partner x or y, but what i learned in my life was that I had the wrong partner. My wife and I can be other people for each other, and also have the most fulfilling personal relationship I have ever known. I have the best of both worlds, it works for me, and I am amazingly lucky.

Getting back to the point, we can fetishize secrecy. We can get off on lying, and many of us do. Honesty is harder, but in my experience it has been better too.

thanks for your blog and sincere effort at educatng josephine public. honesty is a quality valued by few americans as a behavior. it does not make money. I think monogamy or polyamory is not a factor that skews honesty. i think high sex drive is also not a factor. except i think it’s true that this culture shames pple about having ANY sex drive so a horny person may be more accustomed to hidding. in my life i have only met 4 honest horny lovers. 3 of them were men. i think it’s reflective of personal values. For me, All and all it’s been worth the search. what i learne dso far is that honesty often comes in a more square package than i would normally slect. however, under that outter layer , lies common ground which makes room for some polyamorous experiences.